Let the Trump destruction of the Military begin

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Here's a timeline of events to help you decide. Looks like Trump did everything he could to back Biden into a corner. I think he could have handled it a little better but Trump negotiating a withdrawal, cutting troops from 13,000 to 2500 and releasing 5000 terrorists is damned sure a bad look.



While all of that may be true, the fact that we were so caught off guard by the Taliban is still a problem. I do not know how our intelligence had no awareness of what they were preparing to do and I don't understand why, even without intelligence ahead of time, how we were unprepared for the possibility that they would act.
 
I don't think the Taliban did anything of particular note. I think the Afghan army folded like a cheap suit, far more quickly than we could have anticipated. I'm sure the Taliban help facilitate this with a 'fold now or lose your head soon when the Americans are gone' message, but this seems like it would be difficult to necessarily detect by outsiders - of whom there were very few and not long for the country.

There was no elegant way to remove ourselves. Especially when the number of 'US protected Afghans' swelled by 10s of thousands in the final days. The fact we were able and willing to evacuate so many was fairly impressive.
 
While all of that may be true, the fact that we were so caught off guard by the Taliban is still a problem. I do not know how our intelligence had no awareness of what they were preparing to do and I don't understand why, even without intelligence ahead of time, how we were unprepared for the possibility that they would act.
1. They knew what the Taliban was likely going to do. They did not anticipate that the Afghan army would fold. Maybe they should have anticipated that. I found a statement from the US envoy to Afghanistan delivered to Congress. He said the Afghan army would fight. I don't know -- seems reasonable for the government to rely on our Afghans who have deep knowledge of the government (don't know if he was an Afghani citizen we recruited, or an Afghani-American who we sent over there).

If Biden can be blamed for anything here, it's not anticipating more fully what the Afghani army was going to do.

2. You might remember there were other things going on in the world. You know, there was a disease out there that required a lot of attention from the administration and Congress. And the fact is that the military leaders were being hamstrung by the courts. Courts in Texas and Florida actually enjoined the navy from deploying warships because there were sailors on the ship who didn't want to take the vaccine and the courts decided that military readiness came second to their "religious" anti-vaxx bullshit. It's impossible to estimate just how much time went into this kind of crap. I don't remember exactly when those court decisions came down, but they were a thorn in the military's side for quite some time.

3. You might remember that, after Election Day 2020, Trump's focus turned entirely to stealing the election. IIRC he replaced the head of DOD and DHS with the extreme loyalists, and they went on plotting their schemes. There was also a crazy lady somewhere who was tasked (IIRC) with processing transition team security waivers and she was a Trumper and she wouldn't do it.

So when Biden's team came in, they were facing a huge information deficit and a shocking lack of preparedness. And a May 1 withdrawal date established by treaty.

4. The withdrawal was chaotic but the result was fine in the end. Minimal casualties. We had to leave Afghan allies behind . . . but they were having trouble being processed for admission and the GOP in Congress were throwing fits about "parole" for those people. In any event, it could have gone better but it was not a catastrophe.

5. To the extent that you want to apportion blame for what happened, it would seem to be about 80% Trump. He undermined the Afghan government by excluding them from the treaty making process, which meant that nobody could have faith in it and so there was nothing really for the anti-Taliban people to be loyal to. He insisted on freeing all those Taliban fighters. He committed to an impossible withdrawal date (one he likely had no intention to obey because he doesn't give a fuck about reputation for honesty, which is to say he doesn't understand international relations at all -- but other presidents do care and attempt to live up to treaty promises). He neglected the entire situation for the last three months of his presidency.

And oh, he made zero provisions for vaccine distribution -- again, because he was too busy plotting an insurrection. Biden's people had to start from scratch.
 
It was an utter catastrophe and there was never any accountability. One of the worst exercises the US military ever executed. In terms of clusterfucks, it belongs in the same group as the bay of pigs. I’m happy to see someone being held accountable and hopefully more to come. Hardly think holding leaders accountable for failure means the destruction of the military.
 
It was an utter catastrophe and there was never any accountability. One of the worst exercises the US military ever executed. In terms of clusterfucks, it belongs in the same group as the bay of pigs. I’m happy to see someone being held accountable and hopefully more to come. Hardly think holding leaders accountable for failure means the destruction of the military.
You really have no level too low to stoop do you? Have you read ANYTHING about his involvement in the withdrawal or is it just "stick it to someone, anyone" time in America?

And yes, when you start punishing military members for following orders that does lead to the destruction of the military as a functioning entity. That's sort of the thing...an Army that is scared to follow orders doesn't do much good.
 
You really have no level too low to stoop do you? Have you read ANYTHING about his involvement in the withdrawal or is it just "stick it to someone, anyone" time in America?

And yes, when you start punishing military members for following orders that does lead to the destruction of the military as a functioning entity. That's sort of the thing...an Army that is scared to follow orders doesn't do much good.
Fully aware and he isn’t the only one that will be held accountable. It was a total cluster from Biden on down. There was absolutely nothing, nada, zero that forced that deadline. Just complete baffonery all around. But it’s 4 years ago and so now it looks punitive and things like he was the last one out BS cloud the incompetence that was displayed. And yes, I supported leaving Afghanistan
 
Fully aware and he isn’t the only one that will be held accountable. It was a total cluster from Biden on down. There was absolutely nothing, nada, zero that forced that deadline. Just complete baffonery all around. But it’s 4 years ago and so now it looks punitive and things like he was the last one out BS cloud the incompetence that was displayed. And yes, I supported leaving Afghanistan
What forced the deadline was an ORDER. You do know what those are, correct?
 
What forced the deadline was an ORDER. You do know what those are, correct?
That’s right. And that order could have been postponed / delayed / etc until the logistics worked. You don’t think I’m putting all this on just the military do you? Biden is equally to blame but at the time, all credibility and objectivity was out the door because Joe was the new swinging dick and you guys thought he walked on water. knew that order existed for weeks / months and the preparedness and execution was abysmal
 
Fully aware and he isn’t the only one that will be held accountable. It was a total cluster from Biden on down. There was absolutely nothing, nada, zero that forced that deadline. Just complete baffonery all around.
Yes, those baffons. The deadline was forced by a peace treaty signed by the United States. That might be toilet paper to you, but this is why need adults in charge. The most important thing a country has is its word. Other countries need to be able to rely on them. If we are breaking treaties left and right, nobody will ever make treaties with us. Children understand this concept.
 
It was an utter catastrophe and there was never any accountability. One of the worst exercises the US military ever executed. In terms of clusterfucks, it belongs in the same group as the bay of pigs. I’m happy to see someone being held accountable and hopefully more to come. Hardly think holding leaders accountable for failure means the destruction of the military.
You can’t be serious. Why not compare it to Pearl Harbor.
 
GT is a miserable experience for their students. I have to imagine for undergrads, it leads to permanent scarring and negative impacts
It wasn't bad, though I did get lots of comments about my Carolina clothing in class.

The ratio of men to women, in my classes, sucked.
 
I can assure you I had a whole lot more fun visiting friends in chapel Hill where the women hit on you, than I did in Atlanta where the ladies had their pick.
Yes, the hot women at tech knew they had their choice.

I'm glad I was already married.
 
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