MAGA - The family impact

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UNCRx85 said:
Thankfully, my parents and my aunts/uncles/cousins all see right thru Trump and have from the jump. A extreme rarity, I know. My wife's family, however, is another story. They're pretty much all 100% MAGA.

I've had earnest conversations with my FIL about how dem candidates like Obama, Clinton, and now Harris actually favor policies that would benefit him. He'll even admit that Obamacare was the single most-helpful thing a President has ever done for him, personally (he "retired" from running his own convenience store at ~55 yrs. old, sold the business, and has had to buy health insurance for him and my MIL ever since). As someone with a looottt of health problems, it's saved them thousands of dollars annually. He's now been on disability for several years following complications from a surgery.

So, in short, he's relied on and greatly benefitted from Obamacare, is now on SSDI, is fully aware of GOP's interest in making cuts to all such programs, and yet cannot wait to cast another vote for Trump and Mark Robinson. He's also never shied away from shitting on other people for being on these exact same programs. "Too lazy", "gaming the system", etc...

Most frustrating thing ever.

My MIL is a little harder to read. I honestly think I convinced her to vote Biden in 2020, but I'm not sure. The rest of them are southern baptist evangelicals. Luckily, everyone does a good job of not talking politics at gatherings, which are pretty frequent.
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This is maddening
 
dukeman92 said:
They are ardent Trumpers. They espouse all the MAGA positions, ie Harris is a communist who is the worst person ever born etc etc. I don't understand how they mentally detach themselves from Trumps hateful rhetoric while continuing to "love and support" the very people the pubs hate. And I can no longer make excuses for them. (They're good people who are just confused etc etc, you all know them because I'm sure you've all made the same excuses for people you care about.)

Every. Single. Time. I post something to Facebook, he responds regurgitating Trumps hateful rhetoric. If it were anybody else, they would be eviscerated! But because it's him, I hold back. I never respond to the stupid shit he posts on his Facebook. Ever! We only argue because he responds to my stuff. It's gotten to the point where I'm not comfortable going to his house anymore. When this election is over, how will we deal with this? I'm sure I'm not alone.
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A while ago, but post Trump, I saw an explanation that somewhat explains how conservatives can support Trumps hateful rhetoric while still loving people in their lives that Trump hates and teaches others to hate.

The position was that conservatives generally judge individual people rather than actions while liberals judge individual actions rather than people. No actions by the 'good person' can jolt them out of their status as 'good' and no action by the 'bad person' can jolt them out of their status as 'bad'.

Trump could continue to do the worst things, but he will continue to get a pass because his actions are not determinative, and the judgment was made long ago. One of the most common justifications that you'll hear from conservatives is "...but he's a good person" despite there being no apparent basis for that assessment particularly to a liberal who is often basing their assessment on the most immediate observable action.

I think there is some truth in this, but it is more accurate in the extremes. Liberals can often be the other side of the same coin. it is why you see some progressives say they would never vote for Biden based on Palestine where the alternative is Trump, because they judged Biden's Israel/Palestine actions to fail some progressive purity test.

The truth is somewhere in the middle of course. Sometimes good people do bad things and bad people do good things.
 
dcphx said:
A while ago, but post Trump, I saw an explanation that somewhat explains how conservatives can support Trumps hateful rhetoric while still loving people in their lives that Trump hates and teaches others to hate.
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The more I think about the the more I’m coming down to the idea that this is super simple.

We all treat people in our in groups well. The dividing line is our attitudes about whether or not we share an obligation to treat out groups decently. Trumpists on one side, the rest of us (including Jesus Christ) on the other.
 
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dcphx said:
A while ago, but post Trump, I saw an explanation that somewhat explains how conservatives can support Trumps hateful rhetoric while still loving people in their lives that Trump hates and teaches others to hate.

The position was that conservatives generally judge individual people rather than actions while liberals judge individual actions rather than people. No actions by the 'good person' can jolt them out of their status as 'good' and no action by the 'bad person' can jolt them out of their status as 'bad'.

Trump could continue to do the worst things, but he will continue to get a pass because his actions are not determinative, and the judgment was made long ago. One of the most common justifications that you'll hear from conservatives is "...but he's a good person" despite there being no apparent basis for that assessment particularly to a liberal who is often basing their assessment on the most immediate observable action.

I think there is some truth in this, but it is more accurate in the extremes. Liberals can often be the other side of the same coin. it is why you see some progressives say they would never vote for Biden based on Palestine where the alternative is Trump, because they judged Biden's Israel/Palestine actions to fail some progressive purity test.

The truth is somewhere in the middle of course. Sometimes good people do bad things and bad people do good things.
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With all due respect, this is bullshit. I judge people on their actions. Trump has shown us time and again who he is. There is no middle ground here. He’s not a good person. He’s an infantile egomaniac hell bent on attaining the one thing none of his money could ever buy him. Power.
 
dukeman92 said:
I feel as though this deserves it's own thread. If not, I understand. Also, this may be long so I apologize in advance.

As this race spirals towards November 5th, I am losing more and more respect for people who sympathize with Donald Trump. Namely, family.
I have an uncle through marriage. (we're technically just engaged) This is someone whom I met in the last three years (so we haven't been through the Trump rabbit hole together until now) and have gotten along with swimmingly to this point. This is someone who lost a beloved pet and was afraid they couldn't afford to replace it (after a grieving period) So my wife and I found them a puppy and paid for everything. Got her chipped, fixed, the whole nine. Point being, these are people (her aunt and uncle) who we really cared about. To lay some more behind the scenes here and help you understand what's going on, my step son is biracial. THEIR adopted son who is my age is gay.

They are ardent Trumpers. They espouse all the MAGA positions, ie Harris is a communist who is the worst person ever born etc etc. I don't understand how they mentally detach themselves from Trumps hateful rhetoric while continuing to "love and support" the very people the pubs hate. And I can no longer make excuses for them. (They're good people who are just confused etc etc, you all know them because I'm sure you've all made the same excuses for people you care about.)

Every. Single. Time. I post something to Facebook, he responds regurgitating Trumps hateful rhetoric. If it were anybody else, they would be eviscerated! But because it's him, I hold back. I never respond to the stupid shit he posts on his Facebook. Ever! We only argue because he responds to my stuff. It's gotten to the point where I'm not comfortable going to his house anymore. When this election is over, how will we deal with this? I'm sure I'm not alone.
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Good reason to leave Facebook.
 
dcphx said:
A while ago, but post Trump, I saw an explanation that somewhat explains how conservatives can support Trumps hateful rhetoric while still loving people in their lives that Trump hates and teaches others to hate.

The position was that conservatives generally judge individual people rather than actions while liberals judge individual actions rather than people. No actions by the 'good person' can jolt them out of their status as 'good' and no action by the 'bad person' can jolt them out of their status as 'bad'.

Trump could continue to do the worst things, but he will continue to get a pass because his actions are not determinative, and the judgment was made long ago. One of the most common justifications that you'll hear from conservatives is "...but he's a good person" despite there being no apparent basis for that assessment particularly to a liberal who is often basing their assessment on the most immediate observable action.

I think there is some truth in this, but it is more accurate in the extremes. Liberals can often be the other side of the same coin. it is why you see some progressives say they would never vote for Biden based on Palestine where the alternative is Trump, because they judged Biden's Israel/Palestine actions to fail some progressive purity test.

The truth is somewhere in the middle of course. Sometimes good people do bad things and bad people do good things.
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The few trumpers I've discussed this with know that he's a piece of shit.

It's all about winning and what they believe winning will get them.
 
Batt Boy said:
My brother, who served in Iraq, Iran, the Balkans, East Africa and the Pankisi is a Trumper. It disgusts me. I've given up understanding it, but nothing can come between us. He is blood and even if he's wrong, I'd fight any of you if he was threatened.
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What if he’s the one doing the threatening?
 
My mom's side of the family are all yellow dog democrats from way back. Old school southern "Republicans are the party of the rich man, Democrats are the party of the working man" types that never switched over to the GOP. Probably because that branch (specifically my mom's mom's family is very educated, especially for Arkansas - lots of teachers, master's degree holders, etc.) My mom's dad's branch I basically don't know, I guess they weren't very close and my mom didn't have a lot of cousins or anything on that side. But my mom's brother, who (ironically because this was called out on another thread) is a dentist, is a big time MAGA. He doesn't really associate with his family too much anymore except for my mom who tries to keep a relationship with him. His wife's family is all hardcore republican.

My dad's side of the family are 100% MAGA with the exception of a few cousins who are more educated. The majority of them would think that anyone who goes to college is getting brainwashed. One of my uncles passed away during the pandemic and his funeral is the last time I have seen most of them, and I'm not interested in seeing them again either unless I have to. Several of them refused to mask at the funeral and it really pissed me off even more than their dumb shit they post on facebook. And they are way out there - Bill Gates microchips type stuff, not just Kamala is bad. One of them got into a fistfight at a gas station over politics. He posted on facebook that he was wearing his Trump hoodie and was "assaulted" by Biden supporters. This was somewhere in upstate New York allegedly (this cousin lives in Pennsylvania).

I just can't deal with it.

I am so glad I divorced my first wife because her parents and all her extended family on both sides are total nutjobs. We divorced in 2017 so I only dealt with the first Trump campaign and a bit of his first year in office, but it was so bad. She personally is not a MAGA but everyone else is - horribly racist and extremely triggered by Obama becoming president. I vividly remember one year we were on vacation with my in-laws and the news was on, and it was when South Carolina removed the confederate flag from the capitol grounds. My mother-in-law was ranting about how this was such a "disgrace." One of her aunts, who doesn't have to work because her husband is a wealthy doctor, once told me that the implementation of Obamacare was going to "send us all to the poor-house." I couldn't help but laugh. These people have a house that I would not be able to afford if I quadrupled my salary, drive luxury cars etc. But people believe all this shit.

My new in-laws don't give a shit about politics and man it's so refreshing.
 
"We can disagree and still love each other unless your disagreement is rooted in my oppression and denial of my humanity and right to exist."

-James Baldwin

I do not associate with them beyond surface level courtesy.
 
My mom died about 20 years ago, but she was Democrat. I'm pretty sure that my Dad was as well. My dad re-married and his wife is definitely a conservative and a "reluctant" Trump supporter. She commented earlier in the year that she couldn't stand Trump, but simply couldn't vote for Biden. "If the Democrats had nominated virtually anybody else..." I'm sure that this will come as a total shock, but when Harris got the nod, needless to say she didn't switch her vote. We basically don't speak to each other. One of the those people who led a wild life growing up, found Jesus, and then gets all judgy on other people now.
 
I was blessed with parents and grandparents who were probably more liberal than I am in an absolute sense. And in a relative sense, way more liberal than I am. For example, the KKK more than once threatened to burn a cross in my grandfather's front yard. People would anonymously drop books at his house with the word "N**&%-Lover" written on the fly leaf. Not only has the KKK never threatened me, I have never done anything that would cause the KKK to threaten me.

Once I was at his house watching ABC's "Wide World of Sports" and they were showing a surfing contest. He looked at the surfers and remarked one of the biggest regrets of his life, he was born in 1888, was not learning how to surf. That remark has always set a standard in my life. If I can look at someone surfing and think that not learning how to do that is my biggest regret, then I will have lived an exceptionally good life.
 
It's tough enough knowing that someone you love has been sucked into the MAGA madness. But when they don't have a whole lot of time left on this earth and you want to scream at them "what the hell has happened to you" and try to pull them out of the abyss but you know that's only going to make things worse, it's completely depressing. So now you're going to be left with a vivid last memory of them supporting the awfulness of Trump when they pass because that was their new identity they chose at the end.

And I've told this story a few times, but my parents were always apolitical and we never discussed politics until my dad retired and started sitting around watching Fox News all day. It's funny because my mom always watched CNN and thought the Fox News personalities were crazy and the stuff they talked about was a bunch of lies for the most part. Fast forward a couple of years and the hate, identity politics... pushed by Fox News had her watching Fox 24/7 right alongside my dad. But still, it wasn't that bad with them until 2015-2016 rolled around and well, you know how the rest of the story goes.

But as far as other family members support for Trump, if you pop off with something stupid (which it usually is), I'm coming back with some things you're probably not gonna want to hear. F'em
 
dcphx said:
The position was that conservatives generally judge individual people rather than actions while liberals judge individual actions rather than people. No actions by the 'good person' can jolt them out of their status as 'good' and no action by the 'bad person' can jolt them out of their status as 'bad'.

Trump could continue to do the worst things, but he will continue to get a pass because his actions are not determinative, and the judgment was made long ago. One of the most common justifications that you'll hear from conservatives is "...but he's a good person" despite there being no apparent basis for that assessment particularly to a liberal who is often basing their assessment on the most immediate observable action.

I think there is some truth in this, but it is more accurate in the extremes. Liberals can often be the other side of the same coin. it is why you see some progressives say they would never vote for Biden based on Palestine where the alternative is Trump, because they judged Biden's Israel/Palestine actions to fail some progressive purity test.

The truth is somewhere in the middle of course. Sometimes good people do bad things and bad people do good things.
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1. My experience with liberals is that judge people just as much as anyone. That's what "cancelling" is all about, and people everywhere on the political spectrum cancel. "Basket of deplorables" is as judgmental as anything you hear from conservatives. I don't think this is the explanation.

2. Trumpers know that Trump is a bad person. That's why they have to use all those stupid memes of him being blessed by Jesus. It's why they say things like "Trump was sent by God." Because that's the only way to resolve the obvious cognitive dissonance that comes from supporting a man who has no good character traits, who is obviously unholy, who daily commits sins and broadcasts them for all to see. They've gone with "God has sent an imperfect vessel to do His work" because that's all they have.

90% of those MAGAs know that Trump is a bad person. They spend a huge amount of time and mental effort (and money buying all Trump's crap) trying to re-brand him for their own consumption, so to speak.
 
superrific said:
1. My experience with liberals is that judge people just as much as anyone. That's what "cancelling" is all about, and people everywhere on the political spectrum cancel. "Basket of deplorables" is as judgmental as anything you hear from conservatives. I don't think this is the explanation.
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dcphx wasn't saying that liberals don't judge. In fact, he very specifically said they do judge others. The point he was making is that an article(?) he read suggests that conservatives judge actions based on the people that commit them (if a "good" person does a "bad" action, that doesn't change at they are a "good" person and that the "bad" action is either excused or justified) and liberals judge people based on the actions those people commit (if you do "good" you are good and if you do "bad" then you are bad).

i think the example you provided can actually serve to show dcphx's point. Trump, because he wants to give them the things they want, must be labeled a "good" person. But the things he has done for decades and continues to say and do aren't "good" and they recognize the dissonance. So to make him a "good" person they either anoint him as "God's person" (which clothes him in the "goodness" of God) or they proclaim him "good" by saying it takes someone doing what he does to overcome the terrible nature of Democrats (which justifies his actions by making him the warrior the "good" people need). In either case, conservatives have justified why Trump is "good" based on how much they support him rather than by taking accurate stock of his actions.
 
I'm by far the most conservative person in my family. I've actually voted for a Republican... which I'm sure no other member of my family ever has.
 
Fortunately, not an issue in my family. I did lose a really good friend over this, though. Although our friendship was starting to go in different directions for several reasons, 2016 was pretty much the last straw. Four years earlier, she had remarried and moved to Stokes County (need I continue? ) She all of sudden had a bunch of new FB friends who were saying some really off the wall stuff and she declared herself "Trump Girl." My other friends and I just didn't know who she was anymore. A few times I allowed myself to get pulled into craziness while responding to stuff her new friends were posting. It was bananas. Since then, we've only spoken a handful of times and really none in the last couple of years. We were incredibly close for a few years, so it was heartbreaking how it ended up.

We're still FB friends, though. In 2020, she still was calling herself Trump Girl, but wasn't over the top like in 2016, and she didn't seem to have a lot of loonies on her page anymore. This year, I haven't heard a peep, although there's still time. lol But she now owns her own business, so she might be keeping her political views more under wraps.
 
Rural NC born and raised but my Deddy was a New Deal Democrat through and through and while my Momma was a Boll Weevil and not really very down with liberal FDR-spirited policies, they both were strongly anti-republican and thus never split their vote. They were apparently somewhat suspicious about that just the same because they always went into the voting booth together to mark their ballots. My Deddy was a real policy wonk and followed the news religiously. They both frequented Democratic Party rallies and gatherings with great reliability. Deddy's business partner for many years was the NC 4th District Congressman and he was at the house often. My Momma had his home number and would call him up to talk education legislation, which was her only really liberal interest.

We lost my brother to Jesse Helms and he remains a republican and a trumper last I heard. He and I don't talk. He also went to Carolina and is a big sports fan and from time to time if I find myself in the same space as him I'll try to talk hoops. Doherty's right-wing nuttiness and Coach Williams' open support of Democratic candidates and policies have kind of made that topic a bit touchy. No way we could talk about Coach Smith's Left-of-Center politics (though my brother once loved that about Coach).

When my Deddy was in his last hours of life he pulled me close and said to me, "You've got to vote every time...cancel out your brother."
 
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