Mass Deportation and Immigration Catch-All | CIA using drones to spy on Mexican drug cartels

  • Thread starter Thread starter nycfan
  • Start date Start date
  • Replies: 1K
  • Views: 33K
  • Politics 
sringwal said:
What is your definition? Same question for lawtig.
Click to expand...
Let's start with Heritage's own definition --

"Conservatism is an ideology rooted in American founding principles. It prioritizes individual choice and rights over big government, one-size-fits-all solutions and viewpoints."

www.heritage.org

Conservatism | The Heritage Foundation

Since our founding in 1973, The Heritage Foundation has been working to advance the principles of free enterprise, limited government, individual freedom, traditional American values, and a strong national defense.
www.heritage.org www.heritage.org

In other words, anti-MAGA.
 
Get rid of all coloreds lol

[MOD NOTE - @OGtruthhurts I am not sure of your intent with this remark but this sort of racial slur crosses an important line notwithstanding our attempt to provide folks room for strong language and aggressive opinionating.]
 
Last edited by a moderator:
lawtig02 said:
Let's start with Heritage's own definition --

"Conservatism is an ideology rooted in American founding principles. It prioritizes individual choice and rights over big government, one-size-fits-all solutions and viewpoints."

www.heritage.org

Conservatism | The Heritage Foundation

Since our founding in 1973, The Heritage Foundation has been working to advance the principles of free enterprise, limited government, individual freedom, traditional American values, and a strong national defense.
www.heritage.org www.heritage.org

In other words, anti-MAGA.
Click to expand...
You're correct. MAGA, and the current Republican Party, isn't conservative. The best description for it would be populist authoritarian fascist. The only real conservatives left in the US were long ago labelled RINO and exiled from the party.
 
lawtig02 said:
Whatever form it takes, I have absolutely no doubt whatsoever that the next four years will see a MASSIVE expansion of executive power at the expense of the legislature, the courts and the states. I still can’t figure out how so many people who think of themselves as small government advocates have been deluded into supporting this movement. I don’t think it’s a stretch at all to say that Democrats are more conservative than 2025’s version of MAGA.
Click to expand...
You go from 3 branches of government down to 1 - that’s smaller.

It’s simple math.

😁




Never mind. I see that Altmin beat me to it
 
Last edited:
mpaer said:
Huh?
It was an attempt to get some slowdown and a Big Increase in judges looking at legit entrys
Click to expand...
He could have done that with an executive order. Getting some slowdown didn't require passage of the bill. Unilaterally he could have shut the border down. Agree?
 
Callatoroy said:
He could have done that with an executive order. Getting some slowdown didn't require passage of the bill. Unilaterally he could have shut the border down. Agree?
Click to expand...
We've been through this before on this board. The answer is no. It is not an opinion. There are statutes and regulations and international law that requires the border to be open. The president cannot just repeal that.

Also, learn what an executive order is. My son studied them in high school government class. He understands them. Why don't you?
 
rodoheel said:
Classic Republican policy proposal - do something mean and cruel and deceptively simple that would require a massive administrative effort just to begin to administer. Sort of like idiotic "drug test people on welfare" proposals but way more work and also blatantly unconstitutional just for fun.
Click to expand...
A possibly intended side effect is that in the future, only people with means will be able to prove their citizenship. People whose parents have passports might have an easily obtainable record of their parents passports as their parents would have done the leg work (possibly just producing one of their own parents' passports) to prove their own citizenship.

But a person in poverty won't have parents with passports. They might actually have to produce that chain of passports going back generations and that might be impossible / expensive.

Also, look for fraud in this space. One sister who is a citizen might claim the baby is hers. Or a person claims a different daddy. Oh, and are they going to require genetic testing of the dads when the mom isn't a citizen?

Such a mess.
 
Callatoroy said:
He could have done that with an executive order. Getting some slowdown didn't require passage of the bill. Unilaterally he could have shut the border down. Agree?
Click to expand...
Callatory - lawtig has offered up his definition. Since you are adamant that he doesn’t understand what the word means, would you do us the courtesy of offering up yours as well?
 
ChapelHillSooner said:
"Conservatives tend to favor institutions and practices that enhance social order and historical continuity."

Please explain how MAGAs are favoring institutions or historical continuity? They are tearing institutions apart and setting fire to our constitutional order.
Click to expand...
It doesn’t say that they tend to favor institutions in the abstract. It says they tend to favor institutions and practices that enhance social order and historical continuity.

Social order is simply referring to a society that is undergirded by organizing social structures and institutions. These don’t have to be the institutions that have been core to the American liberal project since the New Deal. Conservatives have long derided even these meager programs.

Appeals to these types of institutions and constitutions are more inherent to liberalism rather than conservatism. The big issues with these terms in American political life is that there are a ton of “conservatives” who are liberals by any normal political definition. One thing the Trump era has brought us is a realigning of American political terms along these more traditional lines: socialists/social democrats, liberals, and conservatives.

The institutions and social structures that MAGA relies on are at a much more base level than constitutions and the liberal norms. The nuclear family, patriarchy, traditional religion, etc. Conservatism has been steeped in these principles since its inception.

Think about it this way: Edmund Burke surely thought he was favoring institutions and practices that enhanced social order and historical continuity when he opposed the French Revolution.

There are some that think conservatism started with Buckley, but I think that’s hogwash honestly.
 
Last edited:
Executive order abuse has gotten totally out of control. Obama did it too much but the practice that is in place now is totally insane. Trump just signing things into effect is insanity.
 
ChapelHillSooner said:
"Conservatives tend to favor institutions and practices that enhance social order and historical continuity."

Please explain how MAGAs are favoring institutions or historical continuity? They are tearing institutions apart and setting fire to our constitutional order.
Click to expand...
Yes, this is another way that MAGA is divorced from what American conservatism has analytically presented itself as. But in the global conservative tradition it's perfectly consistent. MAGA prizes things that they see as traditionally part of their version of cultural "American values" - gender roles, Christianity, lack of regulation, gun ownership, white Americans (and in some cases white male Americans) having firm control of cultural and political institutions, etc. - and they want to get back to that. And keep in mind that MAGA is really a cultural movement as much of a political one; its members are frustrated and motivated by perceived cultural displacement as much (and for many of them, likely more) as by political issues.
 
Paine said:
It doesn’t say that they tend to favor institutions in the abstract. It says they tend to favor institutions and practices that enhance social order and historical continuity.

Social order is simply referring to a society that is undergirded by organizing social structures and institutions. These don’t have to be the institutions that have been core to the American liberal project since the New Deal. Conservatives have long derided even these meager programs.

Appeals to these types of institutions and constitutions are more inherent to liberalism rather than conservatism. The big issues with these terms in American political life is that there are a ton of “conservatives” who are liberals by any normal political definition. One thing the Trump era has brought us is a realigning of American political terms along these more traditional lines: socialists/social democrats, liberals, and conservatives.

The institutions and social structures that MAGA relies on are at a much more base level than constitutions and the liberal norms. The nuclear family, patriarchy, traditional religion, etc. Conservatism has been steeped in these principles since its inception.

Think about it this way: Edmund Burke surely thought he was favoring institutions and practices that enhanced social order and historical continuity when he opposed the French Revolution.

There are some that think conservatism started with Buckley, but I think that’s hogwash honestly.
Click to expand...
I think you can pretty clearly trace western political conservatism back as far as, at least, the French Revolution and those who wanted to maintain (and later, return to) the Ancien Regime or, at least, some form of absolute monarchy. But I also think that Buckley could be credited with the creation of a peculiar strain of "modern American conservatism" (or perhaps you could say "liberal conservatism" or "constitutional conservatism" to your point) that still preached the value of traditional institutions but did so in the context of the liberal political framework of the constitution. In other words, he essentially cast the Constitution (which was certainly not a conservative document at the time of its drafting) as the framework for the protection of classic conservative values.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top