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Minnesota assasination thread

  • Thread starter Thread starter altmin
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this thread has been thoroughly derailed already and I'm gonna contribute to that just once more:

the act of being present in the US in violation of immigration laws is not, standing alone, a crime.

while federal immigration law does criminalize some actions that may be related to undocumented presence in the US, undocumented presence alone is not a violation of federal criminal law. thus, the term “illegal alien,” which may suggest a criminal violation, is inaccurate or misleading.

entering the US without being inspected and admitted, i.e., illegal entry, is a misdemeanor or can be a felony, depending on the circumstances. 8 U.S.C. § 1325.

nearly half of undocumented immigrants do not enter the US illegally. They enter legally but overstay, work without authorization, drop out of school or violate the conditions of their visas in some other way. PEW research estimates that approximately 45% of undocumented immigrants did not enter illegally.
 
ZZLPHeels said:
Hey Zen, still waiting to hear your opinion about deporting the Afghan translators and Afghan Christians, who are here legally, back to Afghanistan so they can be executed.
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I would need to see the details of each situation.
 
donbosco said:
Does anyone feel the necessity to take into consideration our national responsibility for making migration a survival strategy, especially in regard to certain countries around the world?
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I fully support our asylum policy and those who follow the established process to request asylum.
 
ZenMode said:
Yes, there are different ways to be here illegally. We shouldn't reward illegality because of emotion. That only encourages more illegal behavior.

Surely you can see the potential issues with encouraging people to sneak across the border and then have as many kids as possible to pull on our heart strings to stay here.
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Since...

1. We need the population growth
2. Immigrants on measure contribute far more to the economy than they take
And
3. Immigrants tend to embrace and cherish their new homeland with an appreciation most natives don't have

No, I do not see the issues you apparently see.

Much like drug laws, the issues are not with incentivizing the activity one way or the other. The issues are with the underlying legality. Legal immigration should be organized, open, and easy. Then, you can forcibly deport anyone who is here illegally with knowledge that they are very likely here for the wrong reasons.

Pointing to "but it's the law" with no thought or care given about the underlying ethics and morality of said law is how most organized atrocities have come to be when they occur in democracies.

Let me put it more bluntly...I believe their kids are a lot less likely to be fuckups mooching off of our social networks than yours are...by an exponential factor.
 
ZenMode said:
I would need to see the details of each situation.
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www.cbsnews.com

Afghan ally detained by ICE after attending immigration court hearing

An Afghan man who worked alongside U.S. troops against the Taliban was detained by ICE officers after he attended a mandatory immigration hearing in San Diego.
www.cbsnews.com www.cbsnews.com

I was mistaken about the Christians. They are Iranian, not Afghans-

www.usatoday.com

Iranian Christians feared death in Iran. Then the US deported them to Panama.

Iranian Christians were flown to Panama after seeking asylum at the U.S. border. The flights are part of Trump's strategy to expel migrants.
www.usatoday.com www.usatoday.com
 
ZenMode said:
Other than the two kids mention above, who the mother decided to take with her when she was being deported, I do not believe any adult, US citizens have been deported..

Which is legal under certain conditions.

Which is also legal under certain conditions. I would say the Trump administration was a little heavy-handed in these cases, because they were deporting students for being essentially anti-Semitic/Hamas terrorist supporters, but I'm Not going to mourn the loss of those types of people.

I see it more as a difference of degrees of enforcement regarding people who are only here because we allow them to be.

For example, I'm ok with allowing anti-Semitic college students to remain here, despite the fact they are likely supporting, if not outright calling for, the elimination of Israel. I'm okay with it because we support free speech, even when that speech is horrible.....But I'm also okay with deporting them because we can and should, be selective with who we allow to be here.

I'm also ok with deportng criminals. The question of which crimes are worthy of deportation is, again, really just a difference of opinion which we often see between Dems and Republicans.
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“It’s legal…”

Not my point.
 
Ramrouser said:
8 USC Section 1325 makes it a crime to enter or attempt to enter the United States - "improper entry by an alien."

This is a criminal violation (misdemeanor) for the first offense and can be elevated to a felony for subsequent violations like re-entry after deportation. Penalties are fines up to $500 and/or up to six months imprisonment for the first offense and up to two years for subsequent offenses.
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What if you enter the US legally but overstay your visa?

NM. Already answered, not criminal.
 
farce© said:
What if you enter the US legally but overstay your visa?

NM. Already answered, not criminal.
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The question is just legality, it's whether or not a person can be deported under specific conditions, like overstaying their visa.

Again, opinions will vary on when we should/shouldn't deport people, but it absolutely within the power of the US to do so.
 
superrific said:
Dude, why do you hate emotion so much? If it wasn't for pity you'd definitely be a virgin and probably you'd starve.
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I don't hate emotion. I'm married, have two kids and express emotion all the time.

Emotion doesn't have a place in all situations. I don't make work decisions based on emotion. I make work decisions based on what is best for my employer and what makes logical, not emotional, sense.

US foreign immigration shouldn't be based on emotion because then you start making decisions that are not best for the country.

Again... it's the whole empathy thing.
 
ZenMode said:
I don't hate emotion. I'm married, have two kids and express emotion all the time.

Emotion doesn't have a place in all situations. I don't make work decisions based on emotion. I make work decisions based on what is best for my employer and what makes logical, not emotional, sense.

US foreign immigration shouldn't be based on emotion because then you start making decisions that are not best for the country.

Again... it's the whole empathy thing.
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The whole of immigration law since it started has been about keeping non WASPs out. It always been about emotion.
 
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