NCAA Men’s Basketball Tournament Thread

[superrific]

You’re remembering him as one of the worst picks of all time because of his really high collegiate and even pop culture profile, “The Stache” became a cult favorite. And because he flamed out after his major injury. All of that does not actually make him one of the worst picks of all time, it just makes him popular to pick on.

I'm not doing the remembering.

Adam Morrison: Named 4th worst pick of the decade by ESPN's Chad Ford

Ouch.Writes Ford (Insider required):"...Chalk (Adam) Morrison up as Michael Jordan's second devastating mistake as a GM. (Land O'Lakers Note: Having already taken on Kwame Brown, L.

www.espn.com

Charlotte Hornets: Drafting Adam Morrison was an unfortunate mistake

The Charlotte Hornets are no strangers to bad draft picks, but the then Bobcats would make what could be the worst pick in franchise history.

swarmandsting.com

Ranking the 31 worst NBA draft picks of all time: The Portland Trail Blazers have picked quite a few busts

The 2018 NBA draft is Thursday, giving teams and players another to make history, for better or worse. For teams like the Trail Blazers, who have multiple picks as busts, the draft can be history-making for the wrong reasons. Here are 31 of the biggest draft busts in NBA history.

www.oregonlive.com

It's possible I exaggerated the badness -- he wasn't one of the very worst picks of all time, but he's on a relatively short list of the worst.

 

[duluoz]

I'm not doing the remembering.

Adam Morrison: Named 4th worst pick of the decade by ESPN's Chad Ford

Ouch.Writes Ford (Insider required):"...Chalk (Adam) Morrison up as Michael Jordan's second devastating mistake as a GM. (Land O'Lakers Note: Having already taken on Kwame Brown, L.

www.espn.com

Charlotte Hornets: Drafting Adam Morrison was an unfortunate mistake

The Charlotte Hornets are no strangers to bad draft picks, but the then Bobcats would make what could be the worst pick in franchise history.

swarmandsting.com

Ranking the 31 worst NBA draft picks of all time: The Portland Trail Blazers have picked quite a few busts

The 2018 NBA draft is Thursday, giving teams and players another to make history, for better or worse. For teams like the Trail Blazers, who have multiple picks as busts, the draft can be history-making for the wrong reasons. Here are 31 of the biggest draft busts in NBA history.

www.oregonlive.com

It's possible I exaggerated the badness -- he wasn't one of the very worst picks of all time, but he's on a relatively short list of the worst.

And he’s only on that list because of his high public profile, his mustache, his crying in the UCLA game, and because a knee injury killed any chance of meaningful improvement from a solid rookie season, among a relatively weak class.

He was always going to be limited, for anyone who was paying attention to his deficiencies. The ACL just exacerbated that. But since he was the face of college basketball (the way Tyler was, who many would also unfairly call an all-time bust), he was primed to have writers take joy in tearing him down on lists like these. You could produce a dozen more articles as “proof” of your point. That doesn’t make them any less affected by the bias I’m talking about. How many of those writers even properly acknowledge the injury? If they did, he wouldn’t be on their lists.

 

[Icky Mettle]

Didn't they give up Oakley in that deal to the Knicks? Or was that a separate trade?

The Oakley trade was after the 1988 season. They got Bill Cartwright for that.

 

[hedge]

It all worked out for Jordan and the Bulls the following year when Chicago made draft day trade with Seattle, trading Olden Polynice for Scottie Piipen, and drafted Horace Grant.

The Bulls would've probably kept Polynice if they'd taken Dawkins over Sellers the year before. Polynice was certainly a lot better than Sellers, but then the Bulls wouldn't have gotten Pippen. So, as you say, it all worked out for Jordan and the Bulls and certainly verifies super's contention that Sellers over Dawkins was the correct pick...

 

[rodoheel]

And he’s only on that list because of his high public profile, his mustache, his crying in the UCLA game, and because a knee injury killed any chance of meaningful improvement from a solid rookie season, among a relatively weak class.

He was always going to be limited, for anyone who was paying attention to his deficiencies. The ACL just exacerbated that. But since he was the face of college basketball (the way Tyler was, who many would also unfairly call an all-time bust), he was primed to have writers take joy in tearing him down on lists like these. You could produce a dozen more articles as “proof” of your point. That doesn’t make them any less affected by the bias I’m talking about. How many of those writers even properly acknowledge the injury? If they did, he wouldn’t be on their lists.

I understand the point you're making but injuries always contribute to people being called "busts." And in any event I think you're stretching a bit as to Morrison's rookie season. He had a PER of 7.9 and was worth negative win shares.

 

[Zoo_View]

Morrison was looking like a bust as his rookie season progressed. His playing time fell later in the season compared to earlier.

He couldn’t shoot (his big skill) and he couldn’t defend. That’s why his MPG went down his rookie season.

He shot 42.8% from “3” as a JR after shooting 30.4% (FR) and 31.1% (SO). Was he a great shooter or did he have a hot season?

 

[superrific]

And he’s only on that list because of his high public profile, his mustache, his crying in the UCLA game, and because a knee injury killed any chance of meaningful improvement from a solid rookie season, among a relatively weak class.

He was always going to be limited, for anyone who was paying attention to his deficiencies. The ACL just exacerbated that. But since he was the face of college basketball (the way Tyler was, who many would also unfairly call an all-time bust), he was primed to have writers take joy in tearing him down on lists like these. You could produce a dozen more articles as “proof” of your point. That doesn’t make them any less affected by the bias I’m talking about. How many of those writers even properly acknowledge the injury? If they did, he wouldn’t be on their lists.

I have never heard Tyler called a bust. He was more or less par for the course for the 13th pick. A decent role player for a while. He was probably taken a few spots too high but that's the nature of mid-first round picks. They tend to be hit-or-miss.

Nobody is dissing on Adam Morrison because of that bias. He was a terrible player. Scoring 11 ppg isn't bad, unless you do so on 39% shooting in which case you are hurting the team. And considering he did nothing else remotely well, he was just bad all around.

 

[duluoz]

I have never heard Tyler called a bust. He was more or less par for the course for the 13th pick. A decent role player for a while. He was probably taken a few spots too high but that's the nature of mid-first round picks. They tend to be hit-or-miss.

Nobody is dissing on Adam Morrison because of that bias. He was a terrible player. Scoring 11 ppg isn't bad, unless you do so on 39% shooting in which case you are hurting the team. And considering he did nothing else remotely well, he was just bad all around.

He scored 11.8 points a game, but your rounding down is reflective of your bias. This is my point. There is a strong bias against him because of his high collegiate and basketball culture profile at his peak. If you want to argue his rookie season was less than “solid” like I called it, that’s fine. But he was 4th in ROY voting, taken 3rd overall (NOT 1st) and it was not a strong class. So how exactly was he an all-time bust, especially considering his injury. The answer is that he wasn’t. You exaggerated it (like you admitted), just like nearly everyone does due to the bias against him (and against Gonzaga by east coasters, for that matter). My point all along has been that he gets a very bad rap when all extenuating circumstances are considered.

 

[Zoo_View]

He scored 11.8 points a game, but your rounding down is reflective of your bias. This is my point. There is a strong bias against him because of his high collegiate and basketball culture profile at his peak. If you want to argue his rookie season was less than “solid” like I called it, that’s fine. But he was 4th in ROY voting, taken 3rd overall (NOT 1st) and it was not a strong class. So how exactly was he an all-time bust, especially considering his injury. The answer is that he wasn’t. You exaggerated it (like you admitted), just like nearly everyone does due to the bias against him (and against Gonzaga by east coasters, for that matter). My point all along has been that he gets a very bad rap when all extenuating circumstances are considered.

You like that “4th in ROY voting” stat a lot.

Brandon Roy received 127 of 128 1st place votes. Morrison did not get the 128th first place vote.

Morrison was also 2nd team All-Rookie….not 1st team. So, a whole bunch of people thought he wasn’t a Top 5 rookie.

He likely was 4th in ROY voting because he was better known than most AND after voting for 1st the voters didn’t give a hoot…….being 4th in ROY voting sounds a lot like being the tallest midget.

In 2007, the Top 12 in voting for NBA ROY is not exactly a list of HOF players.

Again, his MPG dropped over the season and he couldn’t hit the broadside of the barn and he was supposed to be a shooter.

 

[duluoz]

You like that “4th in ROY voting” stat a lot.

Brandon Roy received 127 of 128 1st place votes. Morrison did not get the 128th first place vote.

Morrison was also 2nd team All-Rookie….not 1st team. So, a whole bunch of people thought he wasn’t a Top 5 rookie.

He likely was 4th in ROY voting because he was better known than most AND after voting for 1st the voters didn’t give a hoot…….being 4th in ROY voting sounds a lot like being the tallest midget.

In 2007, the Top 12 in voting for NBA ROY is not exactly a list of HOF players.

Again, his MPG dropped over the season and he couldn’t hit the broadside of the barn and he was supposed to be a shooter.

Ok so he was 4th in ROY, and second team all-rookie. Drafted 3rd in a weak class. Then he had a career-changing major injury.

How is that an all-time worst draft pick, bust, etc… unless you have a bias against him.

When people label him those things, it’s because they didn’t enjoy his time spent on the college hoops pedestal and they enjoyed seeing him knocked off of it. Otherwise without all the notoriety or the mustache, or from some no-name school, he’d be another afterthought in one of the weakest afterthought drafts of the era.

 

[UNCatTech]

Ok so he was 4th in ROY, and second team all-rookie. Drafted 3rd in a weak class. Then he had a career-changing major injury.

How is that an all-time worst draft pick, bust, etc… unless you have a bias against him.

When people label him those things, it’s because they didn’t enjoy his time spent on the college hoops pedestal and they enjoyed seeing him knocked off of it. Otherwise without all the notoriety or the mustache, or from some no-name school, he’d be another afterthought in one of the weakest afterthought drafts of the era.

A label like all time worst is subjective.

To really debate we would need criteria as I'm sure there are second round picks that could be considered worse, but no one cares because by default we expect more or of higher draft picks. So we're back to subjectivity.

I have no idea where to rank him. I do know that he had very little production overall in the NBA. Probably caused by the injury but we have no way of knowing if he would have been any better had he not been injured.

Could you imagine the Stash playing with the Brow?

 

[superrific]

He scored 11.8 points a game, but your rounding down is reflective of your bias. This is my point. There is a strong bias against him because of his high collegiate and basketball culture profile at his peak. If you want to argue his rookie season was less than “solid” like I called it, that’s fine. But he was 4th in ROY voting, taken 3rd overall (NOT 1st) and it was not a strong class. So how exactly was he an all-time bust, especially considering his injury. The answer is that he wasn’t. You exaggerated it (like you admitted), just like nearly everyone does due to the bias against him (and against Gonzaga by east coasters, for that matter). My point all along has been that he gets a very bad rap when all extenuating circumstances are considered.

1. Dude, I promise you I have no bias for or against Adam Morrison. I haven't thought about him in 15 years. I didn't round down because I was biased, I said 11 because that's what I remembered when transferring the stats to here. I didn't imagine that 0.5 ppg could possibly make any difference.

2. I didn't exaggerate intentionally. I exaggerated because I misremembered what had been said about him, because as I said, I've not thought about Adam Morrison in 15 years.

3. It is an objective fact that Adam Morrison was a terrible NBA player. He was good at nothing. A guy who can't shoot, rebound at all, pass/create for teammates, or play defense -- I mean, what exactly are you looking at as something for him to build on? He was truly terrible as a rookie, and it's not as if he was young for his class. To the contrary, he was older.

This isn't bias. I don't know how you can look at a forward who shoots 38% from the field, 39% from 2 point range, doesn't get to the line, grabs 2.5 rebounds a game, and 2.1 assists against 1.7 TOs and see anything other than a) an extreme defensive specialist; or b) a bad player. And if I didn't get those stats exactly right, it's not bias, it's just that I didn't look them up again.

 

[aGDevil2k]

Nope. But the two most deserving were

That's exactly it. Center is really consumed in Duke hate which is cute and all but it's hard to say Houston was unequivocally better. They were getting their asses beaten fairly soundly and consistently for 37 minutes. A wild series of brain farts in a 90 second span doesn't make a team "clearly worse."

But Houston was definitely more deserving because they won (and fairly). But nah they weren't better.

 

[Heelsandeers]

 

[Zoo_View]

Ok so he was 4th in ROY, and second team all-rookie. Drafted 3rd in a weak class. Then he had a career-changing major injury.

How is that an all-time worst draft pick, bust, etc… unless you have a bias against him.

When people label him those things, it’s because they didn’t enjoy his time spent on the college hoops pedestal and they enjoyed seeing him knocked off of it. Otherwise without all the notoriety or the mustache, or from some no-name school, he’d be another afterthought in one of the weakest afterthought drafts of the era.

He’s not the worst pick ever.

He is a BAD pick.

You do everything you can do to trade an early pick in that draft.

By 2007, an ACL tear was NO LONGER a career-ending or career-worsening injury. With surgical advances and improvements in physical therapy, ACL tears were not what they used to be.

The Adam Morrison pick likely gets mocked and denigrated more than many crappy high picks because it’s one in a long list of shitty Michael Jordan picks.

If the Bobcats had passed on Morrison and taken another mediocre player at #3, Morrison would likely be forgotten.

 

[Zoo_View]

That's exactly it. Center is really consumed in Duke hate which is cute and all but it's hard to say Houston was unequivocally better. They were getting their asses beaten fairly soundly and consistently for 37 minutes. A wild series of brain farts in a 90 second span doesn't make a team "clearly worse."

But Houston was definitely more deserving because they won (and fairly). But nah they weren't better.

Hell, I’d happily trade UNC’s season for d00k’s.

 

[duluoz]

If the Bobcats had passed on Morrison and taken another mediocre player at #3, Morrison would likely be forgotten.

This is another way of making my original point — Morrison gets a very bad rap and his legendary status as a bust is overblown, for several reasons.

 

[aGDevil2k]

Hell, I’d happily trade UNC’s season for d00k’s.

I'm not sure why we all love sports like we do. It's usually masochistic.

 

[Bigs23]

Hell, I’d happily trade UNC’s season for d00k’s.

I wouldn’t. That was a soul crushing finish.

 

[Centerpiece]

v

That's exactly it. Center is really consumed in Duke hate which is cute and all but it's hard to say Houston was unequivocally better. They were getting their asses beaten fairly soundly and consistently for 37 minutes. A wild series of brain farts in a 90 second span doesn't make a team "clearly worse."

But Houston was definitely more deserving because they won (and fairly). But nah they weren't better.

Yup. The hate is deep, wide and continuous. Cute or otherwise. And Houston was your daddy on Saturday. Just as Florida was Houston's daddy last night.