OFFICIAL ELECTION RESULTS - POTUS | TRUMP ELECTED 47th President

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Callatoroy said:
Like NATO? Sometimes yes and sometimes no. Is NATO necessary? Without question and would not support pulling out of NATO for any reason. But NATO needs to up its game and I support trump's pushing that. We can get more out of NATO than we do. Do I think trump is serious about his comments regarding pulling out or not supporting NATO? Not at all. The republican party would never support that. It's nothing but trump sabre rattling to get NATO to do more.
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If you know Trump is just saber rattling, why don't the Europeans? Why would NATO do more because an idiot blustered?

Again, you want to have it both ways, and you can't. If you support Trump, you are not supporting NATO. They are irreconcilable positions. Trump even bragged recently that he told a NATO country he wouldn't protect them from Russian aggression. Is that saber rattling? Was he just saying that for shits and giggles?

The problem, as always, is that you think you know how the world works and you don't. Your comment about saber ratting to NATO is but one of many examples. Hey, here's an idea. Read about how things actually happen. Talk to people who actually do these things for a living. It's amazing how you guys think. If you want to know what's wrong with your air conditioning unit, you call the AC repair guy and he fixes it and you don't try to tell him how to do it. But for some reason, you think international diplomacy is just child's play and the people who do it are idiots and evil schemers, when you haven't the first idea what they actually do.
 
"Democrats don’t control the media, social media, and the misinformation machine. The rich have won."

Quite literally the most ignorant comment on the new ZZL Politics board. Who had the most billionaire endorsements? zuckerberg, your biggest billionaire donor, controls the largest social misinformation machine in the world and has admitted to censoring conservatives on facebook. CBS is literally rewriting her bumbling answers to a basic question. ABC, NBC, NYT, MSNBC, CNN, WaPo (except for no public endorsement), etc., etc., etc. She was protected more than any candidate in history. Just goes to show how weak of a candidate she was that in spite of overwhelmingly favorable media support and spin she couldn't win
 
:eek::unsure:

Fox News projects former President Trump to win Michigan

Trump completes 'Blue Wall' sweep of Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin, Fox News projects
 
^^^^In related news^^^

CNN political commentator Scott Jennings said that President-elect Donald Trump's victory in the election over Vice President Kamala Harris was a signal that working-class Americans are fed up with the current administration.

"This is a mandate," Jennings said. "He's won the national popular vote for the first time for a Republican since 2004. This is a big deal. This isn't backing into the office."

The Fox News Decision Desk projected a Trump victory on Wednesday after he accomplished key wins in a handful of battleground states, including Pennsylvania and Wisconsin.

"This is a mandate to do what you said you were going to do: get the economy working again for regular working-class Americans, fix immigration, try to get crime under control, try to reduce the chaos in the world," Jennings continued.

"I'm interpreting the results tonight as the revenge of the working-class American, the anonymous American who has been crushed, insulted, condescended to," he said. "They're not garbage. They're not Nazis. They're just regular people who get up and go to work every day and are trying to make a better life for their kids. And they feel like they have been told to just shut up when they have complained about the things that are hurting them in their own lives."

"I also feel like this election as we sit here and pore over this tonight is something of an indictment of the political information complex," Jennings said, speaking about the media ecosystem, especially in the lead up to Election Day. "The story that was portrayed was not true."

"We were told Puerto Rico was going to change the election. Liz Cheney, Nikki Haley voters, women lying to their husbands," he said. "Night after night after night, people were told all these things and gimmicks were somehow going to push Harris over the line, and we were just ignoring the fundamentals: inflation, people feeling like they were barely able to tread water at best."
 
superrific said:
If you know Trump is just saber rattling, why don't the Europeans? Why would NATO do more because an idiot blustered?

Again, you want to have it both ways, and you can't. If you support Trump, you are not supporting NATO. They are irreconcilable positions. Trump even bragged recently that he told a NATO country he wouldn't protect them from Russian aggression. Is that saber rattling? Was he just saying that for shits and giggles?

The problem, as always, is that you think you know how the world works and you don't. Your comment about saber ratting to NATO is but one of many examples. Hey, here's an idea. Read about how things actually happen. Talk to people who actually do these things for a living. It's amazing how you guys think. If you want to know what's wrong with your air conditioning unit, you call the AC repair guy and he fixes it and you don't try to tell him how to do it. But for some reason, you think international diplomacy is just child's play and the people who do it are idiots and evil schemers, when you haven't the first idea what they actually do.
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Naive is certainly in play here but me thinks its on your side. You are flat wrong that if you support trump you are not supporting NATO. Nobody is supported at 100%. I disagree with trump on numerous issues. his bragging about not protecting a NATO country from russian aggression is just that, bragging to make himself look tough. It actually made him look like a petulant child. trump doesn't operate in a vacuum. he isn't a king (although you guys seem to think he is). trump would have no choice but to defend another NATO country. The pressure on him would be enormous if he didn't. Kind of like the pressure he was trying to apply to whichever country he was talking about to fund their portion of the budget. You would be much better off to ignore what comes out of his mouth and focus on what he actually does.
 
superrific said:
Man, I'm trying to get off the board but I'm having trouble. I'm angry and I don't have a good place to deal with it. It's hard when your support network are all angrier and more depressed than you. I'm the one who tries to keep my brothers from losing their minds.

Anyway, here's the catch: most of those people complaining about the bad economy are lying. They are doing just fine, and the way we know this is data. If people's finances were stretched thin, there would be downward pressure on consumer demand. That has not happened. The math simply does not work. It is not possible for the economic data to be as it is, and for people to be struggling. I mean, there are always people down on their luck and struggling, but it's not a big portion of the population.

If you want to know what people mean when they say they are struggling, pay attention to Todd Henderson of the University of Chicago. He was the asshole who, in 2010, went to blog about how he can't afford life. His family income was $400K a year, but you see, that doesn't go very far after a) two BMWs; b) private school tuition for kids; c) a massive loan on a fancy apartment (I have mutual acquaintances with this guy); d) a babysitter; e) eating out a few times a month and then, after all that, he only had less than a few hundred dollars a month in discretionary income.

Law Prof’s Deleted Post: I’m Not ‘Super Rich’ Enough for Higher Taxes

The ABA Journal is read by half of the nation's 1 million lawyers every month. It covers the trends, people and finances of the legal profession from Wall Street to Main Street to Pennsylvania Avenue.
www.abajournal.com

The economic anxiety narrative has been repeatedly and thoroughly debunked. By and large, these people are not looking for a better day. They are just filled with hate.
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When your entire take on what is possibly the biggest issue in an election is that "people are lying" then you have little to contribute to a discussion.

The economy is great at a macro-level, but those benefits are not equally spread across all levels of society. There are a lot of folks who are, by a reasonable definition, struggling.

Now, you are correct that these folks aren't living in hovels and eating gruel just to survive. But a lot of folks are in families where 2 adults work to afford a house, have reasonably new cars, be able to buy their kids news clothes, pay for childcare or minimal extracurricular activities, eat out a few times per month, and take a vacation once a year and to do so while also having some emergency savings and planning for retirement and being able to give their kids a good start in life.

If your answer to them is that such a life is not one that they should have a reasonable expectation to and that they shouldn't vote based upon, then you're essentially telling a lot of the country that their lot in life is to struggle and then someday die. And that is a message that will lead folks to vote for your opponent in nearly every situation.
 
superrific said:
Man, I'm trying to get off the board but I'm having trouble. I'm angry and I don't have a good place to deal with it. It's hard when your support network are all angrier and more depressed than you. I'm the one who tries to keep my brothers from losing their minds.

Anyway, here's the catch: most of those people complaining about the bad economy are lying. They are doing just fine, and the way we know this is data. If people's finances were stretched thin, there would be downward pressure on consumer demand. That has not happened. The math simply does not work. It is not possible for the economic data to be as it is, and for people to be struggling. I mean, there are always people down on their luck and struggling, but it's not a big portion of the population.

If you want to know what people mean when they say they are struggling, pay attention to Todd Henderson of the University of Chicago. He was the asshole who, in 2010, went to blog about how he can't afford life. His family income was $400K a year, but you see, that doesn't go very far after a) two BMWs; b) private school tuition for kids; c) a massive loan on a fancy apartment (I have mutual acquaintances with this guy); d) a babysitter; e) eating out a few times a month and then, after all that, he only had less than a few hundred dollars a month in discretionary income.

Law Prof’s Deleted Post: I’m Not ‘Super Rich’ Enough for Higher Taxes

The ABA Journal is read by half of the nation's 1 million lawyers every month. It covers the trends, people and finances of the legal profession from Wall Street to Main Street to Pennsylvania Avenue.
www.abajournal.com

The economic anxiety narrative has been repeatedly and thoroughly debunked. By and large, these people are not looking for a better day. They are just filled with hate.
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Super, I'm going to be honest with you. I stopped reading after your first paragraph. Because, you are right. I too am lashing out at folks that don't deserve it. I'm not thinking clearly. I'm...fucking disgusted and angry. I'm in no position to discuss anything right now, and I'm going to force myself to leave the board to calm down.
 
Just wondering a couple of things.

1) Do you guys still support ending the filibuster?
2) Has harris conceded yet?
 
MOUNTAINH33L said:
TikTok and FB reels algorithms.
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Gen X? We arent on Tiktok that much I dont think. FB yes.

But honestly I have no idea why we, as a generation, got suddenly conservative. We should already be in the housing market. We should be past the point where some price increases hurt like they do in your 20s. College tuition? Doubt that. I have no idea
 
SnoopRob said:
When your entire take on what is possibly the biggest issue in an election is that "people are lying" then you have little to contribute to a discussion.

The economy is great at a macro-level, but those benefits are not equally spread across all levels of society. There are a lot of folks who are, by a reasonable definition, struggling.

Now, you are correct that these folks aren't living in hovels and eating gruel just to survive. But a lot of folks are in families where 2 adults work to afford a house, have reasonably new cars, be able to buy their kids news clothes, pay for childcare or minimal extracurricular activities, eat out a few times per month, and take a vacation once a year and to do so while also having some emergency savings and planning for retirement and being able to give their kids a good start in life.

If your answer to them is that such a life is not one that they should have a reasonable expectation to and that they shouldn't vote based upon, then you're essentially telling a lot of the country that their lot in life is to struggle and then someday die. And that is a message that will lead folks to vote for your opponent in nearly every situation.
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How about if the real answer is that the Dems have been consistently better on all matters of the economy for 70 years ? Do you think they are buying it? The real problem is that if you are a Democrat, they aren't going to listen to any answer you give. I understand the point you're making. I also know I never had it that good. I don't feel like we're necessarily the ones acting in bad faith.
 
starheel said:
understand this logic, but the republican party now supports whatever trump says to support. so if he wanted to pull out they would support it.
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Not a chance. Most republicans are like me. They understand the value of NATO. Trump isn't loved by the republican congress. He helped get them elected and a majority but most will be glad when he is gone. His usefulness will decline with every day. Nobody would support stepping aside and letting russia go after a NATO regardless of what trump said. He understands pressure and reacts to pressure.
 
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