On Board Decorum

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last week the board decided to pile on me for some reasomn. i got exceedingly frustrated and broke fingers in my left hand punching a wall. i cant type well and voice recognition works poorly for me because i cant pronounce one letter correctly. i am adding this only because people are so eager to judge people they dont know. its all fund and games until someone gets hurt.

*here are some things that people maybe dont know about me, first, i am autistic but never diagnosed and have only come recently to that realization. its one reason prob that i miss a lot of social nuance. i also dont get memes involving faces or emojis though the latter are most often used to insult me so i dont pay much attention.

*my sociali development as a young child was set back by being abused by family, and being excluded from social activities due to being pushed ahead three grades. also the teachers used to openly mock me in class because they thought it was fun to boost their standing with kids by making fun of the same people the kids did.

*i am naturally inclined toward homosexuality. but i cant possibly be gay because i have no idea hoow to do that, esp when i was younger. i can barely navigate the most common social situations. plus ive seen from friends and family life as a gay man is full of pain and rejection and i cant take that. plus i am not very good looking but i can be charming with women. so i decided a while back that my best bet was to get so good at sex that no woman in her right mind would want to leave me. i have succeeded and its the only accomplishment i am proud of. i enjoy giving my wife hours of pleasure until she is pudding on the bed and cant really move, but i dont get much personal fulfillment. i have to take care of myself.

*i have been open about my mental health struggles. what people dont know is that psych meds often lose effectiveness over time. they dont just stop working,. they just do less and it is hard to notice. i thought i was super stressed and off kilter because of election. i now think my meds were also wearing off and i didnt realize it because i thought it was just fear of fascism. i have been in therapy, but there is only so much that can do.

*what people do know about me is that i am intelligent, whether threy want to admit it or not. my iq is in the 150s. that is an objective fact in the universe. i cant make that go away. for most people that is the end of the story, i am full of myself and thus deserving of scorn. for me it is just the beginning. it doesnt make me superior as a person to have this talent (and it pretty much my onlty one, unless you count inadvertently alienating people). i still have to get by in the world. it is both blessing and curse. i dont claim to manage it perfectly or even well. i do my best.

here is an example. when i was in geometry class, the teacher used to explain problems by making fun of me. explaining the concept of triangles having the same ratio of sides even if the side length is different, he said its like if [super] built a shrink ray and shrank everyones pizza slices. they would be less filling but they would all add up to a circle. i finallty got sick of it and said that he didnt have to bring me into every explanation. he said that i i got 100 on everything anyway so i should learn to have a sense of humor. i told him in these words that he was a fucking dickhead who liked other dicks. it was homophobic but i was 10 and i didnt care. i got sent to the principals office and then i did every day until finally the principal wanted to know what happened. it had happened with other teachers but this was the worst. i told him that i was going to do it every single day until they just gave me the final exam and let me get out of class in jan. i aced it. the teacher was fired over the summer. nobody ever apologized to me.

so i took it on myself not to let that happen to me anymore. the next fall and throughout hs, i made it a point near the beginning of every class to call out the teachers when they would make mistakes. there are teachers here. y'all dont know how many mistakes you make. at least mine didnt. and then i would tell them that if they tried to humiliate me like mr. f, then i would humiliate them in return by exposing how stupid they were. it worked. blessing and curse. it was not the best way to handle it maybe but i was 11 and was dealing with that bullshit by myself.

*my dad used to punish me as a young boy by driving me somewhere miles from home, making me get out of the car and driving away. find your own way home. it was usually in a police car. but when the cop asked me where i went to school and i referred to the middle school at age 8, his attitude changed. i didnt need much protection i guess because i was smart. he told my dad that it wasnt the right thing to do even though i would be able to find my way home. no charges though. so it was up to me. in the car i took some of my dads business cards and when i got out i started hurling rocks through every store window around, and then put my dads card inside. told him it was going to cost him all that money everytime he did that. he stopped doing it and reverted to plain ole physical violence. but he was slow and fat and most of the time he could not catch me. sometimes i got pummeled but i preferred it to being abandoned. blessing and curse.

*so in the end i guess i come across as arrogrant. enouigh people tell me that. i do the best i can. at some point it is too exhausting to try to be someone else -- for instance by getting Bs which was an unsuccessful strategy for dealing with my teachers, or pretending not to understand health economics. so i am me, the best version of me that i can be, i am actually a good person i think but i am a repressed gay (or maybe trans adjacent) autistic dude with a history of abuse and other incidents nobody wants to hear about. nobody wanted to hear the above stuff either but i have to pad my post somehow to get it to proper super length.

i am not planning on posting here. typing is a problem. so is the fact that i have no desire to hang out where so many people clearly loathe me. so i will solve your super ignore problems for you.

but for the sake of decency, people -- especially progressives or liberals -- need to stop punching down on others. that is my message here. stop punching down. and since you might not know who is up or down, if you dont know them or what formed them, maybe stop punching. and if you want to deflecty responsibility by saying that i do it too, i dont care. i dont pick fights but i react to them. maybe i do more than that and dont realize it. regardless whether or not i am a hypocrite does not make your behavior ok.
I can't speak for anyone here, but I have said it before and say it again...let Super be Super:)

and Super, get your hand fixed. The board benefits from your posts. As far as your arrogance ? The great philosopher Dizzy Dean once said, "It ain't bragging if you can do it " You do it, my brother !
 
That doesn't apply to science, only math. Science is best available knowledge just like everything else.
I agree, but science has an unbiased culture of thorough review, correction and criticism. Politics doesn't. Political news coverage is getting further and further from that, at least partially it seems, due to Trump.

So, what does it mean to say "we aren't free to make up our own facts" when a lot of what we have is biased reporting from often self-serving and biased sources?
 
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I can't speak for anyone here, but I have said it before and say it again...let Super be Super:)

and Super, get your hand fixed. The board benefits from your posts. As far as your arrogance ? The great philosopher Dizzy Dean once said, "It ain't bragging if you can do it " You do it, my brother !
Let everyone be everyone! This isn't life or death. It's not even important in the grand scheme of things. It's like professional sports - entertainment.
 
I can't speak for anyone here, but I have said it before and say it again...let Super be Super:)

and Super, get your hand fixed. The board benefits from your posts. As far as your arrogance ? The great philosopher Dizzy Dean once said, "It ain't bragging if you can do it " You do it, my brother !
Not my favorite poster, but certainly doesn't effect my life if he comes back. With that said, as an empathetic human being, if he is getting so upset he is physically harming himself, dude needs to find a different hobby. The board is going to post things he doesn't like unless we're going back to the old board style.
 
Not my favorite poster, but certainly doesn't effect my life if he comes back. With that said, as an empathetic human being, if he is getting so upset he is physically harming himself, dude needs to find a different hobby. The board is going to post things he doesn't like unless we're going back to the old board style.
You posted all your stupid shit on the old board too, so fuck off with your whole woe is me schtick.
 
So I have been debating and discussing on The Internets since 1991 (then called usenet), meaning back when a lot of you were nothing but random molecules spread all over. I debated creationists on Talk.Origins after that, and debated philosophy on other sites--where people can get really, really mean discussing stuff like truth and will and language. Through all that, decorum is something like the question of what is art (I know it when I emote it).

In all that participation I have used some insults in choice spots, and my personal view of the art of this kind of board debating is that there are in fact choice spots, but it must be part of an argument about what someone is not just ignorant about, but displaying a willful and obnoxious ignorance. Seeing an ongoing tactic to replace failed arguments with a "fix" to troll and annoy, and then I may respond by saying something about "the person, not the argument" in that case. This is viewed as wrong in academic debate of course. But I am telling you that among the highest of the highfalutin academics, it still happens, often with exquisite relish and flair, and in peer reviewed published stuff as well. Emotion motivates debate for people of all intelligence levels and skills at expressing themselves.

Do I think any debate on any level is better without personal invective? Yes, it can be, but it's also, in any debate of real importance, that emotion-free zone is something like a long speech in total monotone. Less of is better for the same reason: all personal invective all the time also loses all force and utility. To quote a brilliant Neil Peart lyric it's like "voices in a hurricane." So my idea of a moderator is that she has an impossible job leading and sorting, making impossible-to-be-consistent maddening decisions all over the place. Have fun.

But I do think, always, a post with nothing but stupid insults has no purpose and should be zapped into nothingness. That is what caused me to report one of those yesterday.

Superb post. Kudos.
 
I agree that there are facts. 2 + 2 = 4. A water molecule is 2 Hydrogens and 1 Oxygen. The problem is, 99.999% of political topics are either opinion based (abortion) or don't have anything close to the level of transparent and obvious truth of math and science.

In the cases where we aren't solving an equation and don't have first hand experience, we have to rely on a person or, in most cases, a chain of people for information and facts. Who are those people that we trust, absolutely, to provide facts?
Who are these people to trust for info and facts you ask? Personally I trust my own eyes and ears to discern fact from fiction. After that, my long time trusted friends, family and colleagues. I also usually adhere to age-old adages like: “if it looks too good to be true, it probably isn’t” and “follow the money”.

I terms of “news sources” of which I’ve drawn the petty conclusion you’re referring, I trust Reuters and the AP wire services. As far as legacy news sources I would be more ready to trust CBS in terms of TV platforms as opposed any cable TV source. But here you have to look behind the curtain and see what entity actually pulls the purse strings. A deep dive on CBS reveals those purse strings are tied to one Shari Redstone. A conservative who vows to launch a new station to rival Fox News (which of course is an oxymoron as they are an entertainment company who was successfully sued for $3/4 Billion for LYING on air, pretending to be an actual news source).

As a retired school teacher, I’m more likely to follow my fellow colleagues in education… therefore I prefer Dr. Heather Cox Richardson in terms of a news letter or daily podcasts.

I sleep well at night knowing my trusted sources for facts and the truth are well established and above reproach.
 
This is an example of what not to do on the new board, especially on the decorum thread.
Have to agree with GTY on this one. It would be much appreciated if we all worked not to bring festering grudges from the old ZZLP over here -- as I've said a few times before, there will be plenty of opportunities to build new ones here without re-litigating decades of ish from IC and elsewhere. And maybe, just maybe, we could all try to disagree the same amount but with 50% less rancor for a week or so just to see how that feels.
 
Are you another one afraid to make a specific argument? Make your case and I'll be as direct as you can stand.
Nothing specific. I just see your comments sometimes being hypocritical, as I showed in an earlier post. I surmise you have anger issues and have no other outlet than this board. I hope posting on here, at least in some aspect, makes you feel somewhat at ease or in control.
 
"we’re all free to assume our own positions on the issues"

We really aren't, but that's a different discussion.

"but we’re not free to create our own facts."

The obvious question is where do "facts" come from? Who or what is the ultimate arbiter of truth and why?
Great question! Who decides the truth? Unless there is empirical evidence, everything else is opinion. Telling someone they are wrong when their belief is based on their experiences and your belief is based on your experiences, is hypocritical.
 
Who are these people to trust for info and facts you ask? Personally I trust my own eyes and ears to discern fact from fiction. After that, my long time trusted friends, family and colleagues. I also usually adhere to age-old adages like: “if it looks too good to be true, it probably isn’t” and “follow the money”.

I terms of “news sources” of which I’ve drawn the petty conclusion you’re referring, I trust Reuters and the AP wire services. As far as legacy news sources I would be more ready to trust CBS in terms of TV platforms as opposed any cable TV source. But here you have to look behind the curtain and see what entity actually pulls the purse strings. A deep dive on CBS reveals those purse strings are tied to one Shari Redstone. A conservative who vows to launch a new station to rival Fox News (which of course is an oxymoron as they are an entertainment company who was successfully sued for $3/4 Billion for LYING on air, pretending to be an actual news source).

As a retired school teacher, I’m more likely to follow my fellow colleagues in education… therefore I prefer Dr. Heather Cox Richardson in terms of a news letter or daily podcasts.

I sleep well at night knowing my trusted sources for facts and the truth are well established and above reproach.
Out of curiosity, and because I'm looking for another good liberal podcaster (Ezra Klein doesn't podcast often), I listened to part of an interview with Jon Stewart with HCR about the Trump win. I'll listen to more of her; she seems pretty intelligent.

So, back to the question of what it means to say "we aren't free to make up our own facts".....

There are people and podcasters and news sources that I generally trust for "facts" and others that I trust for good insight and analysis. In either case, none of them, except maybe Ted Cruz, has direct, first-person knowledge of the topic or situation, right? No matter who it is, that entity is getting info from someone who might be getting info from someone who has first person knowledge, but that often isn't even true. So, what does it mean to say something is truly a "fact"?
 
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