On Board Decorum

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gtyellowjacket said:
Does seem like the easiest way to go for folks that can't control themselves.
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I can control myself just fine. You're the one that can't seem to handle pushback without whining about how the old board was just so mean to people like you. I'm not ignoring anyone - I'm going to call them on their bullshit. So if you don't want to see my posts you can ignore me.
 
Enigma94 said:
I can control myself just fine. You're the one that can't seem to handle pushback without whining about how the old board was just so mean to people like you. I'm not ignoring anyone - I'm going to call them on their bullshit. So if you don't want to see my posts you can ignore me.
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I think you're missing the point. It's not about you giving pushback. Its the personal insults, the vulgarity and the childish behavior. That's not saying you fit all three criteria, but certainly the vulgarity. You could have rephrased your initial post as something like the below and been fine:

"You posted all your [same stuff] on the old board too, so [stop] with your whole woe is me schtick."
 
ZenMode said:
Out of curiosity, and because I'm looking for another good liberal podcaster (Ezra Klein doesn't podcast often), I listened to part of an interview with Jon Stewart with HCR about the Trump win. I'll listen to more of her; she seems pretty intelligent.

So, back to the question of what it means to say "we aren't free to make up our own facts".....

There are people and podcasters and news sources that I generally trust for "facts" and others that I trust for good insight and analysis. In either case, none of them, except maybe Ted Cruz, has direct, first-person knowledge of the topic or situation, right? No matter who it is, that entity is getting info from someone who might be getting info from someone who has first person knowledge, but that often isn't even true. So, what does it mean to say something is truly a "fact"?
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First, Dr. HCR is a professor of History and has taught at MIT and is currently at Boston University. Her forte is the American Civil War, Reconstruction and the American West, but has also taught other history subjects. She’s a published author of several books the most recent HOW THE SOUTH WON THE CIVIL WAR and DEMOCRACY AWAKENING.
A more erudite and learned scholar you will not find.

As far as defining a “fact” or whatever - it seems as if one is talking in circles. Which came first, the chicken or the egg? And this brings us all the way back to my first point in all of this: “Go ahead, draw your petty conclusions”.

Whatever your opinion is, or what conclusions you’ve drawn - and from which set o facts you’ve drawn your conclusions - it’s all rather petty as far as anyone else is concerned. So, ok, you’re entitled to your own set of “facts”… but you’re not entitled make those “facts” the truth.
 
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gtyellowjacket said:
I think you're missing the point. It's not about you giving pushback. Its the personal insults, the vulgarity and the childish behavior. That's not saying you fit all three criteria, but certainly the vulgarity. You could have rephrased your initial post as something like the below and been fine:

"You posted all your [same stuff] on the old board too, so [stop] with your whole woe is me schtick."
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Maybe you should take the advice you gave super and get off the board if it's so upsetting to you. And we are back to the original point of you giving anyone advice on how to interact with anyone is the biggest bunch of BS I've heard.
 
Enigma94 said:
Maybe you should take the advice you gave super and get off the board if it's so upsetting to you. And we are back to the original point of you giving anyone advice on how to interact with anyone is the biggest bunch of BS I've heard.
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That's much better. I think you still got your point across but did it in a much more civil manner.
 
Well, I think that’ll be about all for today’s group therapy session.
No more personal, vulgar attacks, and we can all proceed with drawing our own petty conclusions - based on our own “facts” - but we agree not to distort those so-called facts and trying to make others believe they’re actually true.
 
gtyellowjacket said:
No. I mean it's better without the cursing and with a reference to a beloved 90's flick, but I still think we're trying to get away from the personal insults. But hey, progress. Good job.
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Go fuck yourself. (nyc I tried but the passive aggressive posting style that GT loves to employ just makes me do it!)
 
Centerpiece said:
Well, I think that’ll be about all for today’s group therapy session.
No more personal, vulgar attacks, and we can all proceed with drawing our own petty conclusions - based on our own “facts” - but we agree not to distort those so-called facts and trying to make others believe they’re actually true.
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Ouch. Posted that nice thought 2 minutes too soon but I think most folks get it. Hopefully the others will come around in time.
 
Centerpiece said:
First, Dr. HCR is a professor of History and has taught at MIT and is currently at Boston University. Her forte is the American Civil War, Reconstruction and the American West, but has also taught other history subjects. She’s a published author of several books the most recent HOW THE SOUTH WON THE CIVIL WAR and DEMOCRACY AWAKENING.
A more erudite and learned scholar you will not find.
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At least during the early part of the interview, she seemed to have some good thoughts on the causes of Trump's win in 2024. Now that I've listened more, it's easy to tell she's very much focused on history.

In regard to making our own facts, it might be easier to give an example and address new examples when they arise.

To my knowledge, the media sources that Democrats generally trust, reported, until they couldn't any longer, that Biden was still mentally sharp. Many of those same sources downplayed the things that Republicans were pointing out as being concerning. We later found out that Biden hadn't held a cabinet meeting since October 2023 because of his cognitive decline. Obviously, it's not the fault of the media that they were lied to.... because they clearly were by their "sources", right?

My point isn't that Fox News Channel is remotely close to CNN in their intention to report accurate information. My point is that, for 99% of us, the concept of a fact simply doesn't exist because neither I or you or the talking head on CNN or the NY Times writer has first hand knowledge and are susceptible to being lied to. What it comes down to is believing something and deciding to what degree we believe it.
 
ZenMode said:
I agree that there are facts. 2 + 2 = 4. A water molecule is 2 Hydrogens and 1 Oxygen. The problem is, 99.999% of political topics are either opinion based (abortion) or don't have anything close to the level of transparent and obvious truth of math and science.

True, but there isn't a complete absence of fact. There are facts that help to develop the political topics, like there is no heart in a fetus at 6 weeks, so heartbeat laws are lies targeting emotion. Like the fact that one is less likely to be assaulted by an immigrant than they are a US citizen. Like the fact that no boy is going to school and coming home a girl. Notice a trend in all of the lies by trump and how they simply ignore the facts as does his cult?
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Badbehavior1015 said:
Great question! Who decides the truth? Unless there is empirical evidence, everything else is opinion. Telling someone they are wrong when their belief is based on their experiences and your belief is based on your experiences, is hypocritical.
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With all of the data we have about experiences and how easily people are influenced and manipulated, experience doesn't really hold water.

But I do understand the point that one's claimed experience shouldn't trump another's. Well unless one is claiming the earth is flat.

Even then there are experiences that don't add up to the conclusions. Take for example vaccines. Yes, sometimes people have adverse effects to a vaccine, but if their opinion is now that vaccines should be banned based on their experience (Even if it can be shown to be accurate) then they are wrong. Not based off of my contrary experience, but the collective of contrary experiences and data that show that for every one case where their experience was fact there are a million where the positive outcome is the result.
 
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