Protection Of Women And Girls In Sports Act

  • Thread starter Thread starter Callatoroy
  • Start date Start date
  • Replies: 201
  • Views: 4K
  • Politics 
Callatoroy said:
One side is arguing a point to protect women
One side is arguing a point to protect transgender men.

Which one looks like the party protecting women in the eyes of the public?
Click to expand...
I think we can reasonably debate all day long about the merits and demerit of how transgender people compete in what sports (and I have said many times that while I don’t think it is the role of the government to intervene there, I also understand that there are completely legitimately valid safety concerns and considerations that should be taken into account and that ai think it is unfortunately a massive losing issue for liberals that needs to be completely dropped for now).

But there is absolutely no way the Republican party gets to claim that it is interested in protecting women. It is interested in bullying queer people. There is a massive distinction between the two. If it were actually about protecting women, Republicans would mesh their desires to protect women from being injured on the sports court with wanting to protect women from being forced to give birth against their desire. Republicans are not trying to preserve the sanctity of women’s sports, they’re trying to eliminate all vestiges of transgender people from society. That’s the whole goal of legislation like this. We should at least be honest about that.
 
wmheel1287 said:
Prior to now, point to when I have not been civil to you and given every benefit of the doubt.
Click to expand...
I have zero desire to get into an argument with you to debate your degree of civil discourse. I'm not snowflake enough to put you on ignore but I'm not having this discussion. If you want to debate the points I have made in this thread in good faith, fine, let's talk. Otherwise, have a good night.
 
StrangePackage said:
The Secretary of State just froze all passports with the gender marker of X. That means that American citizens in possession of lawfully issued passports are no longer able to travel outside of or return to their home country, because of a gender marker.

You want to try again about how this isn't about taking away civil rights to participate in public life? I'll give you a do-over.
Click to expand...
Don't need a do-over. This thread is about transgender men in women's sports. I'm not aware of what the SOS "just did" or why. Start a thread on that.
 
Callatoroy said:
Don't need a do-over. This thread is about transgender men in women's sports. I'm not aware of what the SOS "just did" or why. Start a thread on that.
Click to expand...
Got it. So this bit of queer bashing is entirely separate from the other bit of queer bashing and we're not allowed to look at both in concert when determining the actual motivation behind this bit of queer bashing.

Great talk.
 
Callatoroy said:
I have zero desire to get into an argument with you to debate your degree of civil discourse. I'm not snowflake enough to put you on ignore but I'm not having this discussion. If you want to debate the points I have made in this thread in good faith, fine, let's talk. Otherwise, have a good night.
Click to expand...
And I wasn't responding to the topic of this thread. I specifically responded to a post that had nothing to do with the topic of this thread where you were opining on the meaning of the word "woke" and how you were unwilling to justify what it means even though you throw it around like beads on Bourbon Street at Mardi Gras.

My opinion on the topic of this thread is that it shouldn't be a topic at all. My opinion is that who participates in sports should be decided by the governing body of that sports league. If they decide it is appropriate to allow trans men/women to compete, then I'm OK with that and if they decide it is not appropriate, then I'm OK with that as well.

However, that's not why this is a topic. This is a topic because people feel big when they are bullying others and that's all you've turned into whether you realize it or not...an asshole bully who is perfectly happy to allow others on his political team to gang up on people for sport.
 
Callatoroy said:
Please zzl don't lose your shit because i'm not stating this as a 1 for 1 equivalency, but you don't have to stretch that line of reasoning to say then states should decide abortion rights. It's in the ballpark.
Click to expand...
No, because medical decisions should be decided by doctors and patients, not congressmen or insurance CEOs.
 
wmheel1287 said:
And I wasn't responding to the topic of this thread. I specifically responded to a post that had nothing to do with the topic of this thread where you were opining on the meaning of the word "woke" and how you were unwilling to justify what it means even though you throw it around like beads on Bourbon Street at Mardi Gras.

My opinion on the topic of this thread is that it shouldn't be a topic at all. My opinion is that who participates in sports should be decided by the governing body of that sports league. If they decide it is appropriate to allow trans men/women to compete, then I'm OK with that and if they decide it is not appropriate, then I'm OK with that as well.

However, that's not why this is a topic. This is a topic because people feel big when they are bullying others and that's all you've turned into whether you realize it or not...an asshole bully who is perfectly happy to allow others on his political team to gang up on people for sport.
Click to expand...
Looking forward to all the condemnations from you and Package when any conservative is ganged up on by the HEAVILY outnumbered liberals on this board. Thanks in advance.

So a state issue or local governing (rec league or YMCA) board issue? If local governing board, how would high school sports work given that it is usually state wide?
 
StrangePackage said:
Got it. So this bit of queer bashing is entirely separate from the other bit of queer bashing and we're not allowed to look at both in concert when determining the actual motivation behind this bit of queer bashing.

Great talk.
Click to expand...
Well it actually was until you and wm decided to derail it. I think if a conservative offers similar remarks you refer to that as trolling.
 
Callatoroy said:
Looking forward to all the condemnations from you and Package when any conservative is ganged up on by the HEAVILY outnumbered liberals on this board. Thanks in advance.

So a state issue or local governing (rec league or YMCA) board issue? If local governing board, how would high school sports work given that it is usually state wide?
Click to expand...
Last I read there are 15 trans women in NC high school sports. Shouldn't be that hard to govern.

The only reason this is a political topic at all is it is divisive.
 
Callatoroy said:
Looking forward to all the condemnations from you and Package when any conservative is ganged up on by the HEAVILY outnumbered liberals on this board. Thanks in advance.

So a state issue or local governing (rec league or YMCA) board issue? If local governing board, how would high school sports work given that it is usually state wide?
Click to expand...
LOL that you think the bullying I'm referring to is on a damned message board. Grow up and stop being the snowflake that you label others. Nobody gets bullied on a message board. We are all grown ass humans. The kind of bullying I'm speaking of is using the levers of government to punch down on members of society for sport. And that's ALL this legislation is. Plain and simple.

I do not pretend to understand much of anything about people being Trans or the issues they face. I do know however that they are extremely vulnerable already and their severe minority status sets them up as the perfect societal punching bag candidates. I also know that the modern American conservative movement LOVES to find someone to punch down on. I loathe that trait in people. It is absolutely morally reprehensible.

And it is damned laughable that you think it's harder for state and local sports governing bodies to decide for themselves than it is for us to have some sort of national mandate that will inevitably lead to freaks demanding DNA tests for any girl who looks "manly".

You aren't serious and you don't post in good faith. You pretend to those things and for all I know you actually believe that crock of horseshit about yourself at this point. But even if you believe it, it definitely ain't so.
 
wmheel1287 said:
LOL that you think the bullying I'm referring to is on a damned message board. Grow up and stop being the snowflake that you label others. Nobody gets bullied on a message board. We are all grown ass humans. The kind of bullying I'm speaking of is using the levers of government to punch down on members of society for sport. And that's ALL this legislation is. Plain and simple.

I do not pretend to understand much of anything about people being Trans or the issues they face. I do know however that they are extremely vulnerable already and their severe minority status sets them up as the perfect societal punching bag candidates. I also know that the modern American conservative movement LOVES to find someone to punch down on. I loathe that trait in people. It is absolutely morally reprehensible.

And it is damned laughable that you think it's harder for state and local sports governing bodies to decide for themselves than it is for us to have some sort of national mandate that will inevitably lead to freaks demanding DNA tests for any girl who looks "manly".

You aren't serious and you don't post in good faith. You pretend to those things and for all I know you actually believe that crock of horseshit about yourself at this point. But even if you believe it, it definitely ain't so.
Click to expand...
I never said it is harder for state and locals to decide for themselves. When I get emotional my comprehension sometimes suffers too. My points were:

- So far, given the vote in the house, the right is being successful in framing itself as the protector of women. The left has traditionally argued they are the protectors of women. Will the public see it that way.
- It will be politically interesting to see how the senate vote goes given that the right will have to have some help from the left to pass the bill
- This is state issue and not a federal issue
- It can't be a local sports board issue due to high school sports
 
rodoheel said:
Or perhaps one could say that Republicans are the party who want to force inspections of kids genitals in youth sports? It’s approximately as accurate.
Click to expand...
Or simply take a birth certificate when you register your kid. Seems a little more simple, but doesn't provide the insulting and scary rhetoric so might not be as popular to those on the left.
 
Ramrouser said:
For every video and picture you can post depicting violence that day, the other side can post videos and pictures showing people in the Capitol simply walking around between the rope lines. Or, officers welcoming them into the building. No picture, or group of pictures, paints a definitive picture of what occurred that day.
Click to expand...
This is like saying that to have a “definitive picture” of the Pearl Harbor attack you have to show pictures of the Arizona burning and sinking next to pictures of the ships in anchorage that didn’t get hit.

Whether some of the people who eventually made it into the Capitol were not particularly violent is pretty obviously irrelevant. None of them would have been inside but for the violent, lawless, coordinated attack against Capitol police guarding the building. It was a shameful and dark day in our nations history no matter how you want to frame it.
 
Callatoroy said:
Or simply take a birth certificate when you register your kid. Seems a little more simple, but doesn't provide the insulting and scary rhetoric so might not be as popular to those on the left.
Click to expand...
Is this the appropriate point to interject that the very same people who are pushing this legislation already have a long history of multi-decade crusades that birth certificates are fake?
 
roostra said:
This is going to sound a bit radical, but I would suggest that any liberals arguing in this thread simply stop engaging. This is, by far, the most active thread on the board today, at least in terms of participation by the board conservatives as far as I can tell. This is functioning exactly the way the Trump campaign intended - a massive distraction from all of the other awful stuff that they are doing.

(Let me re-phrase that - this is an important issue - I am not suggesting that Trans Human Rights issues are not important, but this is the one area where Conservatives feel like they have a justified upper hand and so will engage in detail.. The arguments on this issue are nuanced, it is hard to respond to the "sound-bite" rhetorical style of the arguments on both sides, and much of people's beliefs in this area are exceedingly immune to listening to a counter argument. Letting them make this the focus of the board discussion allows them to duck the plethora of other issues where they don't have much to say because Trump's conduct is much harder to defend for them).

I would love to see Conservatives have to engage on the myriad of other threads that are pointing out the awfulness of the Trump administration actions where there are largely cricket noises from the conservative side.

I recognize that this could be perceived as throwing the Trans Rights cause under the bus and that is not my intention - I feel like Sports is such a relatively minor part of the movement, but it sucks all of the air out of the room and drowns out most of the other areas where Transgender folks are being oppressed which affect a much larger proportion of the Trans community. I am happy to listen to criticisms from this perspective and readily concede that this is possibly not a good stratagem.
Click to expand...
This is a congressional issue. trump not part of it.

Who are all these conservatives you speak of?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top