Russia - Ukraine “peace negotiations”

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Purple Nurple said:
Why is it so offensive to work with Ukraine on a plan for the US to recover some of the resources it has contributed to their war effort?
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Because we were already massively benefited by their crippling the military of one of our principal geopolitical rivals, and the methods by which we are obtaining these resources are extortion.
 
Purple Nurple said:
Why is it so offensive to work with Ukraine on a plan for the US to recover some of the resources it has contributed to their war effort?
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A number of us still feel like we could have probably gotten a similar deal out of gratitude instead of extorting it. Maybe similar results but I suspect it would be easier to keep the deal intact and aid in making deals with other nations.

"A spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go do."
 
Ramrouser said:
He will insist upon a mineral deal to help pay back the American taxpayer.
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So. Much. Bullshit. Trump and Putin want Ukrainian minerals because they see it as an opportunity to increase wealth. Period. The end. The U.S. Department of the Interior has designated 50 sperate minerals "strategically important", Ukraine has more than 20 of the 50. It's about wealth and exploitation.

Trump doesn't give a flying fuck about the American Taxpayer. There is plenty of evidence to that fact in his proposed tax "cuts". Americans got plenty out of Biden's arrangement with the Ukraine. We sent them old stockpiles of weapons, which we had to replace anyway. This created opportunities for us to replenish these weapons through the American workforce. It also severely weakened our largest geopolitical rival. Unfortunately the average American is too stupid to grasp any of this as it requires critical thinking.

You are truly bathed in the MAGA blood if you think Trump has accomplished ANYTHING beyond floating his Vladdy Daddy a lifeline when he desperately needed one. It is LAUGHABLE to suggest that the old man who spent the majority of his first cabinet meeting playing on his phone while Musk held serve, possesses the mental competency to employ the level of critical thinking needed for anything in your post to be true.
 
StrangePackage said:
How did you become an attorney with a total inability to conceive of hypothetical scenarios?
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Hypotheticals should, at the very least, be grounded in reality.

Otherwise, I agree that it sucks that Ukraine is going to have to give up some of its territory. I still haven't heard the realistic plan for Ukraine to expel the Russians from their territory in order to secure their 2014 borders.
 
Ramrouser said:
Hypotheticals should, at the very least, be grounded in reality.

Otherwise, I agree that it sucks that Ukraine is going to have to give up some of its territory. I still haven't heard the realistic plan for Ukraine to expel the Russians from their territory in order to secure their 2014 borders.
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How much of Afghanistan is occupied by Russia currently?
 
Ramrouser said:
No. Sucks to be Ukraine and have a terrible neighbor like Russia. What's your plan for Ukraine regaining its lost territory? Plus, Canada would never be in a position to negotiate anything for us or anyone else.
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Sucks to be Ukraine. That's all you got? I'm starting to believe you could work for team Trump.

Here's a thought. Russia could go the fuck home. The United States could act like the world superpower they claim to be and flex some political muscle. But all we're doing is accepting a series of escalating Russian demands without extracting any quid pro quo except the promise of an end to the war on terms that Russia dictates.
 
Ramrouser said:
Most Republicans (including myself) still have a traditional Republican strong - on - foreign - policy approach. Rubio and Trump's negotiating team fall in this camp. Trump is an outlier in that he looks at diplomacy as making a "good deal." As we all know he's very transactional.
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Uh......."good deal"? Perhaps it was based on what Trump originally proposed. The final deal appears to mean not much at all. It was Zelensky who brought this mineral deal up months ago. I have to hand it too him. Zelensky's goal seems to be to stall as long as he can Trump pulling sanctions and American arms sales to Ukraine.

This is pure Trump. Make a deal, any deal, and then lie about it every day. Zelensky used that against Trump.
 
And anyone who says Ukraine will eventually lose is wrong. Some territory maybe. But Ukraine is well on its way to remaining independent which is absolutely in our best interest. In 18 months or less, its Putin that's going to be on the ropes.
 
The best way to look at this war is from the Russian people's side. If Ukraine does not remain independent then what happens for them? It means more war for them and more problems for us. But if Ukraine remains independent, then it stops Russia from making more war in its tracks. Sounds like a win for us.
 
Ramrouser said:
Apples to Oranges. Afghanistan has challenging mountainous terrain, making it very difficult to conquer and hold. Ukraine is on the European steppe with little to no natural defenses.
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You're right in that Ukraine's topography has more similarities to Vietnam's than Afghanistan's....
 
Ramrouser said:
But I also give him some credit. We've had more movement on the peace process since Jan 20th than we've had in two years under Biden/Blinken. The Biden Administration would have been content to simply continue pouring additional billions into the World War I meat grinder which Ukraine would eventually lose since it can't win a war of attrition against Russia and no Ukrainian allies (US included) are willing to send in soldiers into the trenches like North Korea is doing for Russia. At least Trump has things moving towards a negotiated settlement. It's just painful watching the sausage being made.
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I followed your train of thought in the first paragraph.

But let's be real about the second one. Putin had a strategy the last 18 months or so of waiting out the western democracies. He knew there was a decent chance of Trump winning and thus having a much more pliable counterpart.

What I'm wondering is ion Trump will give in on all Russian points.
 
Let's also be real about who has been "content to pour billions into the WWI meat grinder". That is Putin and Putin alone. Nobody except him and his sycophants wants this war to continue and without Biden's support he likely would have gotten his wish of accomplishing the first step in putting back together the USSR. So blaming Biden for Putin's war is yet another morally bankrupt position of MAGA.
 
Look - Russia is the ultimate loser in this war. They were supposed to conquer Ukraine with "shock and awe" in a matter of weeks, not get bogged down in a 3+ year war. They've lost nearly a million men and their equipment has either been destroyed or exposed as sub par. It will be a decade or so before Putin or his successor could even contemplate a serious invasion of another county. All they've gained is the Donbas region, which will require billions or trillions to rebuild.

For this I give the Ukrainians a TON of credit. They've fought like no other ally of the US has fought using our equipment since the Russians in WWII.
 
Ramrouser said:
Look - Russia is the ultimate loser in this war. They were supposed to conquer Ukraine with "shock and awe" in a matter of weeks, not get bogged down in a 3+ year war. They've lost nearly a million men and their equipment has either been destroyed or exposed as sub par. It will be a decade or so before Putin or his successor could even contemplate a serious invasion of another county. All they've gained is the Donbas region, which will require billions or trillions to rebuild.

For this I give the Ukrainians a TON of credit. They've fought like no other ally of the US has fought using our equipment since the Russians in WWII.
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If you believe this then why give Putin the out by pulling our support? That don't make no sense.
 
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