Russia - Ukraine “peace negotiations”

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Pretty much. I think this board is happy the events turned out like they did today. If he is able to pull it off and achieves a peace deal then its a win for trump and they couldn't stomach that. If russia pulled out of ukraine today, including crimea, this board would find some reason to bitch. Today was bad. Optically really bad, but eventually it will get done for the reasons you mentioned. Acting as if biden was doing anything other than forking over weapons and cash is their default. When pressed to give details about what biden was doing to end the war the default is to insult somebody or something.

What is your take on the days events?
Biden forking over weapons and cash, along with Europe, is literally what saved Ukraine. Your constant bad faith bullshit is irritating.
 
Similar to yours. I would have preferred a more traditional diplomatic meeting between two allies.

It should have initially been a private meeting so they could air out their frustrations behind closed doors. Signing ceremony then, do a scripted joint presser and finish with lunch. This is especially true since clearly Trump and Vance do not like Zelensky and are tired of his schtick

I blame Zelensky and his team for not knowing his audience and reading the room. Showing up in his GI Joe Uniform (would it have been too much to put on a suit?) clearly irked Trump from the get go. Then, Zelensky felt the need to lecture and correct the President in the White House. Contrast this to Macron and Starmer who were real pros and made a genuine effort to act warmly and appropriately in the presence of Trump (he is who he is) and had done their homework in what to do and not to do in a meeting with this President.

It's very early in the negotiation process and everyone's nerves are frayed, particularly Ukraine's, but the process will continue on. Note it is reported that Zelensky and the Ukrainian team were begging for the meeting to not end. Trump loved that thinking he's put Ukraine in its place. But I think everyone looked bad today. It will play out but will be ugly. Putin is admittedly enjoying this for now as we, very publicly, sort out our issues with our ally/client but eventually we'll turn and demand concessions from Russia.
Love that you focus on Zelinsky's attire. We are in agreement there. Now, what about Elon?
 
I fear you are correct. It will be scary to live in a world in which a nuclear Germany, Japan and South Korea will reduce launch response times to a few minutes. When you add in the emerging missile shield technologies, the math will favor a first launch strike for both good and bad actors in the world.
I don’t see a way around it. Nature abhors a vacuum and we’re leaving behind a big one.
 
Pretty much. I think this board is happy the events turned out like they did today. If he is able to pull it off and achieves a peace deal then its a win for trump and they couldn't stomach that. If russia pulled out of ukraine today, including crimea, this board would find some reason to bitch. Today was bad. Optically really bad, but eventually it will get done for the reasons you mentioned. Acting as if biden was doing anything other than forking over weapons and cash is their default. When pressed to give details about what biden was doing to end the war the default is to insult somebody or something.
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You should take advantage of this weather and touch some grass.
 
Pretty much. I think this board is happy the events turned out like they did today. If he is able to pull it off and achieves a peace deal then its a win for trump and they couldn't stomach that. If russia pulled out of ukraine today, including crimea, this board would find some reason to bitch. Today was bad. Optically really bad, but eventually it will get done for the reasons you mentioned. Acting as if biden was doing anything other than forking over weapons and cash is their default. When pressed to give details about what biden was doing to end the war the default is to insult somebody or something.
Has anyone on the board said they are happy with the day's events? Of course not. This is a disgrace. I want peace. A peace negotiated with the weight of the US of freaking A thrown behind Ukraine to bring Russia to heel and to a settlement that accounts for what Russia has done. If Trump can truly negotiate a peace that is beneficial for Ukraine, not for Russia, I'll give him credit for it. But him literally siding with Putin against our ally is a disgrace. He is destroying a world order that has kept Americans largely safe and will replace it with a much more dangerous and hostile world, one where we have many fewer friends.
 
Similar to yours. I would have preferred a more traditional diplomatic meeting between two allies.

It should have initially been a private meeting so they could air out their frustrations behind closed doors. Signing ceremony then, do a scripted joint presser and finish with lunch. This is especially true since clearly Trump and Vance do not like Zelensky and are tired of his schtick

I blame Zelensky and his team for not knowing his audience and reading the room. Showing up in his GI Joe Uniform (would it have been too much to put on a suit?) clearly irked Trump from the get go. Then, Zelensky felt the need to lecture and correct the President in the White House. Contrast this to Macron and Starmer who were real pros and made a genuine effort to act warmly and appropriately in the presence of Trump (he is who he is) and had done their homework in what to do and not to do in a meeting with this President.

It's very early in the negotiation process and everyone's nerves are frayed, particularly Ukraine's, but the process will continue on. Note it is reported that Zelensky and the Ukrainian team were begging for the meeting to not end. Trump loved that thinking he's put Ukraine in its place. But I think everyone looked bad today. It will play out but will be ugly. Putin is admittedly enjoying this for now as we, very publicly, sort out our issues with our ally/client but eventually we'll turn and demand concessions from Russia.
your commentary here on zelenskyy is nauseating and absurd. he did nothing wrong. full stop. he always dresses like that and the entire interaction was recorded for the world to see - trump and vance are the ones who were aggressive and inappropriate. that was classic schoolyard bully behavior. pathetic.

and macron and starmer? france and england aren't in year three of a Russian invasion/war. get a fucking grip.
 
Has anyone on the board said they are happy with the day's events? Of course not. This is a disgrace. I want peace. A peace negotiated with the weight of the US of freaking A thrown behind Ukraine to bring Russia to heel and to a settlement that accounts for what Russia has done. If Trump can truly negotiate a peace that is beneficial for Ukraine, not for Russia, I'll give him credit for it. But him literally siding with Putin against our ally is a disgrace. He is destroying a world order that has kept Americans largely safe and will replace it with a much more dangerous and hostile world, one where we have many fewer friends.
Well, but you see, we could’ve had all of that, were it not for our board Trumpers’ bizarre fixations on wondering about the genitalia of the people taking a leak or a dump in the stall next to them in a public restroom. Remember, you have to crack a few eggs to make an omelette.
 
Because you can't. You are stumped when pressed for details. Nothing about any deal with putin has been made public. So disingenuous and full of bullshit. Someone is being obtuse but it isn't me.
I have enumerated my position on Ukraine and how Trump is fucking it up multiple times. I’m done explaining things to idiots like you.
 
“What Trump is really trying to do is <insert wishcasting here>. I don’t like the optics/language/attitude, but he’s the only politician willing to talk about <insert fictional problem here>. If you liberals could stop freaking out and give him a chance you would see he just wants <insert false statement about shared values here>. This is why you lost the election.”

That about cover the conservative response to every issue?
 
Thank the good Lord that today’s Republicans were not around in the 1940’s or else the entire European continent and most of Africa would be speaking Deutsch, and the entire Pacific rim- and perhaps even some of the US West Coast – would be speaking Japanese.
Or 1770s America.

Hey colonists, try looking at this from King George's point of view. It costs money to protect the colonies. It is only reasonable that the colonists bear that expense. And you cannot seriously expect representation in Parliament. It is far too long of a voyage to have meaningful representation. And really, if you hadn't been flirting with France, we would not have needed to crack down on you. Ultimately, you are just being unreasonable.
 
Biden did nothing to prevent Russia from invading Ukraine other than stating "DON'T" - real effective.
You left out the part where he warned the world what was coming, preemptively rebutted Russia's propaganda, and put together a global coalition to defend Ukraine. Sanctions on Russia to deplete their fighting ability, frozen assets of oligarchs that might be used to compensate Ukraine when this is over, etc.

It was the single most effective response to sovereign aggression in my lifetime. Even Barack wouldn't have done as well. And that Russia has nukes makes it all the more intrepid, bold and principled.
 
You left out the part where he warned the world what was coming, preemptively rebutted Russia's propaganda, and put together a global coalition to defend Ukraine. Sanctions on Russia to deplete their fighting ability, frozen assets of oligarchs that might be used to compensate Ukraine when this is over, etc.

It was the single most effective response to sovereign aggression in my lifetime. Even Barack wouldn't have done as well. And that Russia has nukes makes it all the more intrepid, bold and principled.

A-freaking-men, brother. A-freaking-men.

My complaint with Biden prior to his ascension to the Presidency is that he seemed to get all the 50-50 decisions wrong when he was in the Senate. But I was wrong. When it came to the onset of the Ukraine war, he nailed the response. He absolutely stuck the landing, and he doesn't get enough credit for it.
 
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