Russia - Ukraine “peace negotiations”

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Silence Dogood said:
I'm simply advocating an end to the war. I understand Russia as a adversary and as such if you want peace you don't make threats. There's been no negotiations with Russia, its time we try. Thats it. Quit making this so complicated
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The fact that you think that this stuff *isn't* complicated is why you aren't taken seriously here. You don't negotiate with terrorists. Period, end of discussion. You don't negotiate or sue for peace with a rogue pariah terrorist state like Russia that launched a full-fledged invasion of another sovereign country unprovoked. You do not attempt to find middle ground or peace terms with the invader nation that doesn't involve them withdrawing their forces and ending the bloodshed. What you *do* in that situation is to continue to pour arms, aid, and support into helping the invaded country- one who is our ally- either repel the invaders or cause enough harm to the invaders that *they* sue for peace. What you also do is rely upon your alliance of fellow democratic nations- we call it 'NATO'- to similarly fund and arm the invaded ally.

You either do not actually view Russia as an adversary, or you do not understand how to actually deal with an adversary.
 
CFordUNC said:
Completely regardless of politics, you need to take a look in the mirror and do some introspection. Ask yourself why you are so willing to support the one singular country in the world who hates the United States of America more than anyone else, along with revulsion of everything for which we stand. Ask yourself why you are so eager to defend the one country that has been the biggest perpetual nemesis and thorn in the side of the United States over the last 80 years. Then, ask yourself why you believe that the leader of a country who was invaded, bombed, plundered, raped, and pillaged completely unprovoked, doesn't have the right to do whatever it takes to garner the support necessary to help his country repel those invaders.

Forget about liberals and conservatives, Republicans and Democrats. Forget about Trump, Biden, Obama, whomever. Just ask yourself why you are so willing to gargle Russian propaganda so eagerly, and why you are going to the mat to defend the one country in the world who sees the destruction of America and the West as its lone mission.
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Well, remember, Trump and Putin have been through a lot together. Hunter and Hillary spent years kicking both of their asses.
 
Silence Dogood said:
I'm simply advocating an end to the war. I understand Russia as a adversary and as such if you want peace you don't make threats. There's been no negotiations with Russia, its time we try. Thats it. Quit making this so complicated
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But this is simplistic. Everyone wants an end to the war, Ukraine and Russia included. The question is not whether an end to the war is desired, it is what an end to the war looks like. The concerns are rewarding Russia for its aggression and protections put in place to prevent yet another conflict. Any solution that doesn't account for these is not an end to the war, it's just an indefinite pause.
 
CFordUNC said:
The fact that you think that this stuff *isn't* complicated is why you aren't taken seriously here. You don't negotiate with terrorists. Period, end of discussion. You don't negotiate or sue for peace with a rogue pariah terrorist state like Russia that launched a full-fledged invasion of another sovereign country unprovoked. You do not attempt to find middle ground or peace terms with the invader nation that doesn't involve them withdrawing their forces and ending the bloodshed. What you *do* in that situation is to continue to pour arms, aid, and support into helping the invaded country- one who is our ally- either repel the invaders or cause enough harm to the invaders that *they* sue for peace. What you also do is rely upon your alliance of fellow democratic nations- we call it 'NATO'- to similarly fund and arm the invaded ally.

You either do not actually view Russia as an adversary, or you do not understand how to actually deal with an adversary.
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After Hitler had signed the Munich Agreement one of his staff asked him wouldn’t this hamper our plans going forward? Hitler replied that it was just a piece of paper. Same applies to Putin. History has proven you can’t negotiate with people like him. Some people on this board don’t understand that.
 
Silence Dogood said:
I'm simply advocating an end to the war. I understand Russia as a adversary and as such if you want peace you don't make threats. There's been no negotiations with Russia, its time we try. Thats it. Quit making this so complicated
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End to the war? Good, we all want that. So to get that, I ask you what security arrangements have been proposed to safeguard Ukraine? Or do you expect to get to peace without security arrangements? This should be straightforward to answer.
 
I never knew that Silence Dogood was the favorite pen name of Neville Chamberlain. You learn something every day, I suppose.

If history is any indication, this isn't peace - it's war deferred.
 
Now just imagine if we applied this same energy with our borders and the resources we'd have a secure border. We could also wipe out the cartels and anyone who assists them since they're our enemy.
 
Silence Dogood said:
I'm simply advocating an end to the war. I understand Russia as a adversary and as such if you want peace you don't make threats. There's been no negotiations with Russia, its time we try. Thats it. Quit making this so complicated
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But it's OK to make threats against our own ally as part of those peace negotiations?
 
Huh? said:
I never knew that Silence Dogood was the favorite pen name of Neville Chamberlain. You learn something every day, I suppose.

If history is any indication, this isn't peace - it's war deferred.
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Yeah can anyone remind me what happened the last time the US tried to stay out of a European conflict involving an autocratic strongman that we didn't think was any of our business? Surely Europe made peace itself and nothing later happened that forced us into a world war.
 
"Trump played both sides like a master chess player. In the end, Zelenskyy will have no choice but to concede, because without U.S. support, Ukraine cannot win a prolonged war against Russia. And once U.S. companies have mining operations in Ukraine, Putin will be unable to attack without triggering
massive international consequences. Don't underestimate Donald Trump. In this game of chess, he's 10 moves ahead of
everyone."

Trump believes there are no other options for Zelenskyy. However there are.

(1) (Pick one (EU, India, China) offers concrete security assurance to Ukraine including direct military aid and personnel;
(2) As a reward, Ukraine (possessing 5% of strategic rare earth minerals; hence reason for Russian invasion) offers enough titanium, zirconium, graphite, lithium, nickel, cobalt, copper and other rare earth minerals to last a century;
(3) Understanding that Trump/Vance are 100% cut out of the arrangement.
 
nycfan said:
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From the AP article Trump linked:

“A deal to end the war between Ukraine and Russia “is still very, very far away,” Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy said, adding that he expects to keep receiving American support despite his recent fraught relations with U.S. President Donald Trump.

“I think our relationship (with the U.S.) will continue, because it’s more than an occasional relationship,” Zelenskyy said late Sunday, referring to Washington’s support for the past three years of war.

“I believe that Ukraine has a strong enough partnership with the United States of America” to keep aid flowing, he said at a briefing in Ukrainian before leaving London.

Zelenskyy publicly was upbeat despite recent diplomatic upheaval between Western countries that have been helping Ukraine with military hardware and financial aid.

… Europe is suspicious of Trump’s motives and strategy. Friedrich Merz, Germany’s likely next leader after the recent election, said Monday that he didn’t think last Friday’s Oval Office blow-up was spontaneous.


He said that he had watched the scene repeatedly.

“My assessment is that it wasn’t a spontaneous reaction to interventions by Zelenskyy, but apparently an induced escalation in this meeting in the Oval Office,” Merz said.

He said that he was “somewhat astonished by the mutual tone,” but there has been “a certain continuity to what we are seeing from Washington at the moment” in recent weeks.

“I would advocate for us preparing to have to do a great, great deal more for our own security in the coming years and decades,” he said.

Even so, Merz said that he wanted to keep the trans-Atlantic relationship alive.

“I would also advocate doing everything to keep the Americans in Europe,” he said.“
 
uncgriff said:
www.startribune.com

In a stunning comeback, Russia wins the Cold War

And we helped them do it.
www.startribune.com www.startribune.com
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About a decade after the cold war, someone asked Gorbachev who won the cold war. His response was no one. We all lost. Both sides spent a fortune on defense and in the end, we are mostly in the same place, outside of some countries in Eastern Europe. Can you imagine how much better off most countries would have been if we had spent all that money on something other than the military? It was a lost 50 years.

So at some point you have to say enough. Who cares who "wins" the Cold war. Its time for peace and some reprioritization away from the military industrial complex.
 
gtyellowjacket said:
About a decade after the cold war, someone asked Gorbachev who won the cold war. His response was no one. We all lost. Both sides spent a fortune on defense and in the end, we are mostly in the same place, outside of some countries in Eastern Europe. Can you imagine how much better off most countries would have been if we had spent all that money on something other than the military? It was a lost 50 years.

So at some point you have to say enough. Who cares who "wins" the Cold war. Its time for peace and some reprioritization away from the military industrial complex.
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I can totally understand that perspective and think there are certainly elements of truth to it, but ultimately I do personally believe that while we did/have spent a fortune on defense, we've gotten a tremendous ROI over the lasts several decades as the world's economic, cultural, and soft power leader. My fear is that we are in the process of squandering all of that and then some.
 
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