Russia - Ukraine “peace negotiations”

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BTW, Russians and Russian supporting Americans comparing this Ukrainian attack to Pearl Harbor are outrageous.

If Russia surprise attacked a United States military base because we are providing support to Ukraine, that would be like Pearl Harbor.

Russia invaded Ukraine. Ukraine defended itself. Ukraine agreed to an unconditional cease fire. In response, Russia bombed civilians in Ukraine and delayed meaningful peace talks. So Ukraine attacked military targets inside Russia to disable equipment being used by an invader to wage war on Ukraine. Zero comparison to Pearl Harbor (except maybe to some extent the cost of damage done?).
 
Russia doesn't deal well with embarrassment. Heads will roll. It will be interesting to see if Ukraine helps steer the rolling process toward undermining key folks who Putin depends on. Perhaps leaking information that would lead to suspicion. Doesn't have to be accurate, just plausible. I am sure they have already thought about it.
 
nycfan said:
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That strikes me as a completely reasonable response to Russia's last absurd proposal. It's not something that could get a deal done, of course, but it communicates Ukraine will not cave. Between the timing of that brilliant drone attack and this response, I'm loving what we're seeing from Ukraine right now. All the Russia-loving MAGAs who have been telling us Ukraine is doomed can suck it.
 
lawtig02 said:
That strikes me as a completely reasonable response to Russia's last absurd proposal. It's not something that could get a deal done, of course, but it communicates Ukraine will not cave. Between the timing of that brilliant drone attack and this response, I'm loving what we're seeing from Ukraine right now. All the Russia-loving MAGAs who have been telling us Ukraine is doomed can suck it.
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Zelensky to Putin and Trump: FAFO
 
Ukraine making a bit of noise about how they were prevented from making deep strikes on Russia by the Biden folks.

Connecting some dots, but Trump made a post in the last week about how he had saved Russia in ways they didn't know about or something like that. That's doubtful. Or, perhaps in Trumps first couple of months Ukraine was humoring him to get him to play ball. So connecting the dots, maybe Ukraine is sending a message to Trump that he should play ball and he might have some influence with them. (Ukraine leveraging every avenue for advantage. Not trying to say this was the only reason for the deep strikes.)
 
BlueSmoke said:
Ukraine making a bit of noise about how they were prevented from making deep strikes on Russia by the Biden folks.

Connecting some dots, but Trump made a post in the last week about how he had saved Russia in ways they didn't know about or something like that. That's doubtful. Or, perhaps in Trumps first couple of months Ukraine was humoring him to get him to play ball. So connecting the dots, maybe Ukraine is sending a message to Trump that he should play ball and he might have some influence with them. (Ukraine leveraging every avenue for advantage. Not trying to say this was the only reason for the deep strikes.)
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Also, they know Trump will reflexively be critical of anything Biden did, so if they say Biden wouldn't let them make deep strikes on Russia, Trump will pretty much have to be all for it (and claim it was his idea)...
 
hedge said:
Also, they know Trump will reflexively be critical of anything Biden did, so if they say Biden wouldn't let them make deep strikes on Russia, Trump will pretty much have to be all for it (and claim it was his idea)...
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Excellent point! Didn't think of that angle.
 
lawtig02 said:
“A result achieved solely by Ukraine.“

Something Z never would have said a year ago, but absolutely necessary and appropriate now.
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Ukraine needed to do this alone in order to create their own leverage against Putin. Russia would never consider any peace plan if US or EU were heavily involved in the planning or logistics of the operation. Plus, there’s the whole WWIII to worry about.
 
Healing said:
As much as anything, they said that to communicate to Trump that he isn’t effectual, without saying he isn’t effectual. Same reason why they’re suggesting Biden was the cause for prolonging the war. It’s manipulation of Trump bc he’s the easiest US president to manipulate, by multiples, which is astounding when George W. Bush, Dipshit in Chief, is on the board. If they strategically trigger Trump’s patently obvious inferiority and aggrievement complexes they could potentially trigger substantially more US aid.

Additionally, it’s obvious the US is full of bad faith and plainly stupid partners, in addition to possessing SigInt security comparable to Johnny passing Janey notes in their 4th grade classroom.
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The Taco In Chief only cares about getting a win for himself. He wants a Nobel peace prize for brokering a deal. Ukraine had no choice but to take the bull by the horns. Brilliant move. I hope it pays dividends with the EU and puts some pressure on La Donald to distance himself from Putin.
 
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Ramrouser said:
Ukraine needed to do this alone in order to create their own leverage against Putin. Russia would never consider any peace plan if US or EU were heavily involved in the planning or logistics of the operation. Plus, there’s the whole WWIII to worry about.
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Ram, could you explain what you're saying here? You and I disagree about most things, but I have a hunch we agree much more about Russia-Ukraine than about most other things. But as for "WWIII," I don't see any way a nuclear war is less likely in a world in which the US is strongly and unequivocally on the side of Ukrainian survival and success, as opposed to a world in which the US is either pro-Russia or neutral. I could buy that Russia needs to know Ukraine is capable of inflicting significant damage before a reasonable resolution is possible. I'm having a harder time buying that the US essentially dropping out of this conflict and leaving Ukraine to defend itself makes a "WWIII" less likely.
 
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