Russia - US | Ukraine “peace negotiations”

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dukeman92 said:
Wrong. As usual.

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"France President Macron then interrupts, “No, in fact, to be frank, we paid. We paid 60% of the total effort. It was like the US: loans, guarantees, grants”, and then later speaks about Russian "frozen assets", making me think that Macron is expecting some partial payback in the end"

"The majority of committed support by country has come from the United States, whose total aid commitment is valued at about $128 billion. The U.S. is followed by the United Kingdom and Germany for highest commitments overall. The European Union as a whole has committed approximately $124 billion in aid to Ukraine."
 
President Trump's performance today was the most disgusting public display of obeisance to a foreign entity by an American politician I have seen or heard in my life. From this point on, any argument that Vlad "the Ras" Putin does not have St. Donald of Mar-a-Lago's genitals in his pocket is presumptively a bad faith argument.
 
superrific said:
Do you think Trump would have built that coalition? I think the answer is obviously no. Between this bullshit and his attempted shakedown of Ukraine in 2019, I doubt he would have tried. But had he tried, he would have failed miserably because Trump is congenitally incapable of building coalitions.

It's much fucking easier to build a coalition to boot Iraq out of Kuwait than to fight against a huge nuclear-armed country. But there's no degree of difficulty score, here. The point is that the main reason that Russia didn't walk all over Ukraine was the Biden administration.
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Then what does that say for the obama administration?
 
It will never not be wild to watch “conservatives” go to the mat to defend someone like Vladimir Putin. The way I was raised, people like Putin are sworn enemies to everything on which United States of America was founded and on which she stands. Watching half of our country put on their knee pads for a guy who would gladly novichok them before pushing them out of a window, is how you know that America is no longer a global superpower. We are, sadly, such a has-been. An entire generation of Americans fought and bled to be able to crush fascism and imperialism, and then the generation after them crippled the Soviet Union without firing a shot, and now here we are in 2025 watching the children and the grandchildren of those generations happily surrender to a fucking KGB thug.
 
Callatoroy said:
Today not withstanding, seeing the left criticize trump for the way he chooses to deal with putin after having 12 years to show how smart and tough they were only to yield two invasions on their watch is kind of like gardner webb giving football advice to alabama. Only the left doesn't know how dumb they look when they do it or how impotent they looked while russia said fuck you to obama and biden. They actually think they have some credibility on the issue. Its kind of cute and sad at the same time.
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Russia and Putin are/were nearly on their last legs. While it is fair to say Romney was right in 2012, Russia has been undermining Ukraine for a long time. Putin invaded Georgia, then Ukraine in 2014 and took Crimea. Influence in Syria (which Putin lost) and Crimea were about recapturing warm water ports. When Ukraine stopped electing Putin puppets because of US influence (Republican and Democrats) Putin intervened piece by piece.

Keep in mind that this campaign began in the late 80s and continued - to recapture some of the 20th Century Soviet Empire. Sanctions had a moderate effect, ironically until Putin in his bubble overstepped his intelligence and went for the Kyiv jugular. Putin declared cyber and intelligence war on the West in 2014. Both Obama and Trump certainly could have done more. Trump also kowtowed to Putin and negotiated with terrorists (Taliban) at Camp David. Trump chipped away at Russian sanctions.

Putin didn't realize that
1. His Army of Orcs was in such crappy shape. His military infrastructure and leadership were bereft from decades of corruption.

2. The toughness and resilience and spirit of Zelenskyy and the Ukranian people. The type of resolve that only comes from 100s of years of serving a foreign nation (USSR/Russia)

3. The emergence of European unity around NATO.

Biden's tipping of the IC info shortly before the invasions was brilliant. Austin and Blinken titrated the war support for Ukraine pretty darn well. I wish Biden had provided more airpower to Ukraine during the 2022 counter-offensive, including before the Orcs began laying landmines.

The Russian Army currently is in awful shape. They have NK and Chechen soldiers on the frontlines. Russia has been invaded. Putin's power was waning.

Trump 2.0 is the best thing that has happened to Putin since Trump 1.0. It is clear that Trump et al. are witting assets to Russia.

As a (former) Reagan Republican the disgust, embarrassment, and anger I feel today would be overwhelming if it wasn't so expected. Trump has been p*ssed off at the US gov't since Reagan's White House semi-banned Trump from the WH and diverted some of Trump's $$ to Iran Contra. He's been a Russian as a stupid, narcissistic nihilist asset since Trump and Ivana's trip to Moscow in 1987, shortly after the fallout with Reagan's staff.

This isn't 3-D chess. Trump is a child. I have family members who has served in our military, including a tour in Afghanistan. It is a dark, sad, yet clownish day in American History.

A Day That Shall Live in Idiocy.
 
CFordUNC said:
It will never not be wild to watch “conservatives” go to the mat to defend someone like Vladimir Putin. The way I was raised, people like Putin are sworn enemies to everything on which United States of America was founded and on which she stands. Watching half of our country put on their knee pads for a guy who would gladly novichok them before pushing them out of a window, is how you know that America is no longer a global superpower. We are, sadly, such a has-been. An entire generation of Americans fought and bled to be able to crush fascism and imperialism, and then the generation after them crippled the Soviet Union without firing a shot, and now here we are in 2025 watching the children and the grandchildren of those generations happily surrender to a fucking KGB thug.
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That is foremost in my mind. All that damn sacrifice and standing up for the rights of the oppressed.

Throwing it all away: Allies, Gravitas, Trading Partners, The American Century - thrown into a dumpster fire of our own making.

We were in reasonable shape on January 19, 2025. Just 39 days later we are officially a pariah and a sh*thole country.
 
OMG I just watched it. I'm ashamed of us. Nobody's going to separate good muricans from bad muricans so thanks Calla/Ramrsr/Zen et al hopefully you are happy (I got nothing)like Lindsay.
ETA
Sorry no excuse for my language nor other mentioned. All are inexcusable. Mea culpa.
 
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SmilingJack said:
OMG I just watched it. I'm ashamed of us. Nobody's going to separate good muricans from bad muricans so thanks Calla/Ramrsr/Zen et al hopefully you are happy slurping like Lindsay.
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[This is for everyone as we see this sort of language a lot] I would really appreciate if we didn’t use insults about sexuality, even for public figures. Plenty of other ways to vent.
 
aGDevil2k said:
Reported.
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rodoheel said:
Has anyone on the board said they are happy with the day's events? Of course not. This is a disgrace. I want peace. A peace negotiated with the weight of the US of freaking A thrown behind Ukraine to bring Russia to heel and to a settlement that accounts for what Russia has done. If Trump can truly negotiate a peace that is beneficial for Ukraine, not for Russia, I'll give him credit for it. But him literally siding with Putin against our ally is a disgrace. He is destroying a world order that has kept Americans largely safe and will replace it with a much more dangerous and hostile world, one where we have many fewer friends.
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What does that peace deal look like (beneficial to ukraine and not for russia)? Why would russia ever agree to anything that wasn't beneficial to them? How would it be structured to bring russia to heel?
 
Callatoroy said:
lol if you call that negotiations.
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Putin claimed he hadn't heard from the Biden administration in 3.5 years. You believed him. I showed you where the Biden administration was backchanneling with Putin literally 2 years ago. You claim it doesn't count.

Because it's really important to you that you not be wrong. We get it. But c'mon man.
 
StrangePackage said:
Putin claimed he hadn't heard from the Biden administration in 3.5 years. You believed him. I showed you where the Biden administration was backchanneling with Putin literally 2 years ago. You claim it doesn't count.

Because it's really important to you that you not be wrong. We get it. But c'mon man.
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“The discussions have taken place with the knowledge of the Biden administration but not at its direction”. Seriously? That is what you want to use to make your point? It further illustrates how weak and ineffective biden was. This isn’t something you delegate to “former officials”.
 
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