Smith Center Replacement/Renovation

Yes I am very familiar with all of that. My freshman year was 85/86. The Dome was supposed to be ready to begin that season. Thank goodness it wasn't. I got to see UCLA, NC State and some other games in Carmichael, before I saw the first game in the Dome in Jan. We camped out for several days and my group was right in front of Carmichael where tickets were given out best seats first. I got to sit in student section behind basket. Then they went to lottery, luck of the draw, and I like most students was hanging from the rafters in the top 6 or 7 row ring all around the building.

it was like a library or morgue in that place. I looked down at courtside and saw an old man reading a paper in middle of ACC game. An older lady nearby was knitting. It was pathetic. It was my last time there.

I went to Henderson St Bar to watch on TV instead with college students, making noise, having fun and getting excited. So much better. And you could see the Dome out the window of my Freshman dorm it was that short of a walk, just one steep hill.

As bad as we were in football at end of Crum's era and Mack's dreadful first two years, the student section at football games (beside the field and grouped together) was a far better college experience.
 
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Zoo_View said:
Students definitely voted down a small fee ($5 or $10 per semester or year) that would fund a long-term loan that would pay for a part of the Smith Center and Natatorium.

If the fee had passed the student referendum, student seats would have either ringed the court or been on one sideline and both end lines……8-15 rows deep. Simple bleachers like the ones behind the player benches in Carmichael.

Not only was the student fee defeated, UNC was incapable of hitting the fundraising marks the consultants said had to be met to raise the $32-35 million.

One of the marks was a single donor at $6-10 million; 6 donors at $1-1.5 million each; X at $250K each; etc.

The largest donor was Walter R. Davis, the oil millionaire from Elizabeth City (Davis Library). He gave $1-1.5 million…..and, it supposedly took some arm-twisting. He was always good for large donations for academics; less so for sports.

A new approach was needed to raise the money. I don’t know who hit on the long-term-rights idea; but, Skipper Bowles and Dean Smith went on a Rams Club roadshow and raised the money.

It wasn’t a one-time payment to get ticket rights. One had to maintain an annual level of giving to the Rams Club to maintain those rights. So, the donors who helped build the Smith Center have been funding UNC Athletics (and endowment and more) for 40+ years. They’re also the people who built Karen Shelton Stadium and Anson Dorrance Field, the Boshamer upgrades, and more.

If you want to blame anyone for the student seating in the Smith Center, blame the students from about 1982-84 (I can’t remember the year of the student fee referendum).
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Thanks for the write up. I’ve heard the gist of the story before but some of those details are new to me.

While I understand why the seating configuration in the Smith Center is the way that it is, the simple fact is that other CBB programs all over the country have figured out a way to put their student sections close to the court and make the crowd really feel on top of the action, and the fact that a top 2-3 program doesn’t have that is a bit of a shame.
 
Peppers49 said:
Thanks for the write up. I’ve heard the gist of the story before but some of those details are new to me.

While I understand why the seating configuration in the Smith Center is the way that it is, the simple fact is that other CBB programs all over the country have figured out a way to put their student sections and make the crowd really feel on top of the action, and the fact that a top 2-3 program doesn’t have that is a bit of a shame.
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Examples of relatively recent buildings of similar size?
 
NCK9 said:
Per Wikipedia the students didn’t kick in and thus lost their seating🤷‍♂️ :
A proposition was made to the student body for a fee increase to be applied to help cover building costs and that increase would maintain the seating arrangements as they were in Carmichael, but it was voted down.

Also the official name of the building is the Dean E. Smith Student Activities Center which is a bit comical.
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Yes, that is the first thing the so called "donors" always throw out in response. Not saying that is you. And yes I know there was some sort of vote a few years before I got there.

I sure wish I knew the actual details of that vote and how it was presented. I find the $5 per semester or $10 per year per student makes no sense.

Do you have any idea how high interest rates on loans were back then? 13%. 20K students X $10 is $200K per year. The Dome cost $34 Million.

Assuming the students were asked to pay half or $17Million, an amortization schedule shows students would still be paying, with a balance even higher now. Granted they could have refinanced several times over the next few decades, but you get the picture.

It had to be closer to a few hundred dollars. That was a lot back then for college students. I think my dorm rent for an entire semester was around $500.
 
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haroldminer said:
Examples of relatively recent buildings of similar size?
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Why just recent? Okay, UVA's seats 16,500. Kansas over 15K. Hell Indiana's on campus arena was built in 1971 and seats over 17K with students covering half the court.
 
Kraftyheel89 said:
Why just recent? Okay, UVA's seats 16,500. Kansas over 15K. Hell Indiana's on campus arena was built in 1971 and seats over 17K with students covering half the court.
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Public funding equals seats for students.

Why did the university need to sell PSL to fund the stadium? Why didn’t these folks donate? Perhaps the university was too ambitious with size and scope of the arena forgetting it was for ultimately for the students.

In terms of the atmosphere, nba teams don’t seem to have a problem with expensive seats and atmosphere. Of course most nba arenas are much smaller then the dome.
 
As I stated it was a major blunder. No point in arguing all the reasons. I think those that know best, are all those that built new arenas and studied everything we did wrong.

I think it all boils down to being rushed and not well planned, all because they wanted to honor Dean (understandably) as soon as possible so he was still there. Yet, he didn't even want it named after him.
 
Peppers49 said:
Thanks for the write up. I’ve heard the gist of the story before but some of those details are new to me.

While I understand why the seating configuration in the Smith Center is the way that it is, the simple fact is that other CBB programs all over the country have figured out a way to put their student sections close to the court and make the crowd really feel on top of the action, and the fact that a top 2-3 program doesn’t have that is a bit of a shame.
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No school in the US built a 100% privately-funded arena the size of the Smith Center, especially with a 50 meter x 25 yard swimming and diving complex built as part of the same project. It was unique.

UNC tread uncharted terrain and water in funding and building the Smith Center.

The people who funded it have built UNC’s excellent athletic program AND funded the enormous growth in the endowment, the Carolina Covenant, and more.

A certain group of students is to blame for the seating arrangement in the Smith Center.

At some point in the fundraising process, UNC had to make a call. It didn’t look like enough money was going to come in to fund the project as designed. The first cuts were to the Natatorium - fewer seats, lower ceiling (anyone remember the 1987 Olympic Sports Festival?*** The ceiling tiles above the diving area had to be removed because the great Greg Louganis kept hitting them).
 
Kraftyheel89 said:
Yes, that is the first thing the so called "donors" always throw out in response. Not saying that is you. And yes I know there was some sort of vote a few years before I got there.

I sure wish I knew the actual details of that vote and how it was presented. I find the $5 per semester or $10 per year per student makes no sense.

Do you have any idea how high interest rates on loans were back then? 13%. 20K students X $10 is $200K per year. The Dome cost $34 Million.

Assuming the students were asked to pay half or $17Million, an amortization schedule shows students would still be paying, with a balance even higher now. Granted they could have refinanced several times over the next few decades, but you get the picture.

It had to be closer to a few hundred dollars. That was a lot back then for college students. I think my dorm rent for an entire semester was around $500.
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You are WRONGLY assuming A LOT.

The proposed loan wasn’t to pay for the entire project; it wasn’t to pay for half of the project. It was to pay for a small percentage of the Smith Center - maybe $5-8 million.
 
Zoo_View said:
No school in the US built a 100% privately-funded arena the size of the Smith Center, especially with a 50 meter x 25 yard swimming and diving complex built as part of the same project. It was unique.

UNC tread uncharted terrain and water in funding and building the Smith Center.

The people who funded it have built UNC’s excellent athletic program AND funded the enormous growth in the endowment, the Carolina Covenant, and more.

A certain group of students is to blame for the seating arrangement in the Smith Center.

At some point in the fundraising process, UNC had to make a call. It didn’t look like enough money was going to come in to fund the project as designed. The first cuts were to the Natatorium - fewer seats, lower ceiling (anyone remember the 1987 Olympic Sports Festival?*** The ceiling tiles above the diving area had to be removed because the great Greg Louganis kept hitting them).
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Why are blaming the students? The students could have been given better seats but the administration stuck them in the corners to sell the seats to people more important.
 
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