So-called Anti-Woke, Anti-DEI policy catch-all

[Mulberry Heel]

This is so silly - literally celebrating the failure of a movie because it dared to use minority characters in place of the traditional all-white ones. I've seen a good deal of criticism of remakes over the years from conservatives (not coincidentally, they were nearly always straight white males) complaining about a remake having a more diverse cast than the original. With the Battlestar Galactica remake they hated that Starbuck was turned into a woman (although that one proved to be pretty popular), they hated Star Trek: Discovery because it had an openly gay couple and black female captain, they hated the new Star Wars trilogy not because it was pretty bad (it was) but because the hero was a female Jedi (a "Mary Sue" as they kept calling her, although Luke Skywalker had many of her same traits). And if the movie or TV series is a flop then they go wild celebrating that it's a flop, and claiming that it flopped only because it had a "DEI" cast. Which means, of course, that they wanted a nearly all-white traditional cast like the original had. And no matter what they say this is what it always boils down to - how dare they feature gays or transgenders or non-whites instead of the original straight white folk that we expect! That's what they're pissy about, plain and simple, and their complaints and posts make that abundantly clear nearly every time.

 

[Zoo_View]

I, for one, would welcome a black James Bond as long as:

1. He's British;
2. A rugged manly man;
3. Who likes women and martinis; and
4. Who looks good in a dinner jacket.

In other words, please just keep the traditional elements of the Bond series and I'm good.

Wait until James Bond is gay.

Or, trans.

 

[Zoo_View]

Most of y’all make me laugh. Many of you are intelligent and articulate.

Yet, you engage over and over and over again with trolls.

• Do you think you’ll win?
• Do you think you’ll change the troll’s mind?
• Do you think anyone is reading your replies to the troll and thinking, “That’s an impressive statement?” Hint. Almost NO ONE is reading your interactions with the troll aside from MAYBE the troll. And, that’s doubtful.

Quit giving the trolls hard-ons.

 

[JCTarheel82]

Lord, I never considered that someone was spending a lifetime dealing with your nonsense...

She probably has Taco on super ignore.

 

[ZenMode]

For this poster, DEI is synonymous with minorities getting opportunities that should go to white people as they always have.

Sorry. For all right-wing whiners, this is what DEI means.

Holy crap. Not sure how I missed this...

You sound like Trump. There are no "white jobs" any more than there are "black jobs".

 

[wmheel1287]

Holy crap. Not sure how I missed this...

You sound like Trump. There are no "white jobs" any more than there are "black jobs".

I'm confused. Isn't a chief complaint of yours in this thread that portraying Snow White and/or Ariel are indeed "white jobs"?

 

[ZenMode]

I'm confused. Isn't a chief complaint of yours in this thread that portraying Snow White and/or Ariel are indeed "white jobs"?

There are more and less qualified people for any job, but there are no white or black jobs. It made sense for Jamie Fox to play Ray Charles. That doesn't mean that portraying singers in a movie is a "black job".

It wouldn't make sense for Colin Farrell to play Ray Charles. That doesn't mean white people can't play singers in movies.

 

[McAdooSmackinYou]

Zen Action Alert: NC State has a male dancer

He is white and appears cisgender but is clearly stealing a spot from a deserving white woman.

The Man Can Dance: N.C. State Team Spotlights First Male Dancer

Ryan Cawley is one of a handful of male dancers on university teams across the country, a sign that sports entertainment is diversifying.

www.theassemblync.com

 

[Ramrouser]

I didn't see the Hamilton movie, only the musical. It was clear that they were taking the entire concept in a completely different direction not just recreating the story about Alexander Hamilton. I don't think anyone was the same race as the actual historical person.

I'm not familiar with the Hamilton movie only the musical. Lin Manuel's Hamilton was not a remake of anything. It was a completely unique concept.

 

[sringwal]

Most of y’all make me laugh. Many of you are intelligent and articulate.

Yet, you engage over and over and over again with trolls.

• Do you think you’ll win?
• Do you think you’ll change the troll’s mind?
• Do you think anyone is reading your replies to the troll and thinking, “That’s an impressive statement?” Hint. Almost NO ONE is reading your interactions with the troll aside from MAYBE the troll. And, that’s doubtful.

Quit giving the trolls hard-ons.

I use it more to help strengthen and develop my arguments than anything else. I know what I believe, but I struggle sometimes to put the "why I believe it" into words. Several of the "other side" posters on here have helped me to formulate my opinions, whether that was their intent, or not.

But I also find the "trolls" here far more interesting, intelligent, and willing to engage than the ones that I encounter in most online groups. I am in a number of fandom groups on Facebook and have essentially fled the ones that are full of idiots who can barely put two sentences together, but somehow think that they are a) the intelligentsia and b) able to debate. They aren't.

The older I get, the more I realize that I beat myself up unnecessarily as a teen/young man because I believed that I wasn't intelligent. Don't get me wrong, I still think I'm an idiot, but boy, howdy, there are some truly, truly, truly stupid people out there.

Familiarity also helps. I razz ZenMode a fair amount, and find his views on queer culture to be childish, but if we ever met up in person, I'd happily sit down with either him or Gyt for a drink or two, to shoot the shit.

Edited to add: I would also point out that there are a number of posters on here who were considered by many of you to be trolls when they posted on the zzlp, who are vehemently anti-Trump, and tend to side with the libs on here. People do listen, grow, and change. Some more than others, yes, but it happens. Whether that change is due to things said here, aging, or outside circumstances, they are, nevertheless, different people then they were then. As I have said before, I respect most of you all a great deal, but most of the posters that I truly admire here are the ones like CFord, krafty,, and UNCatTech who have put integrity first, even if it meant no longer supporting a party that no longer stands for the beliefs that it once did.

 

[ChileG]

Most of y’all make me laugh. Many of you are intelligent and articulate.

Yet, you engage over and over and over again with trolls.

• Do you think you’ll win?
• Do you think you’ll change the troll’s mind?
• Do you think anyone is reading your replies to the troll and thinking, “That’s an impressive statement?” Hint. Almost NO ONE is reading your interactions with the troll aside from MAYBE the troll. And, that’s doubtful.

Quit giving the trolls hard-ons.

I get it, but I enjoy it. Don’t care about winning, but I do think I have at least made some reconsider some stances, but I don’t even know if that is a goal of mine. I am fine if nobody else reads but some do because others also respond to what I’m saying at times.
But the main reason is because if I can article rationally and calmly to all of their points here, I’ll be better able to be prepared for the MAGAs I encounter in the real world. Without this board, I wouldn’t know what Trump’s supporters are thinking of what their arguments might be. And I have found they all pretty much have the same talking points.
I understand your POV around this, and other posters here have expressed similar thoughts. But I enjoy (for lack of a better term) the interaction, perverse as that sound.

Edit: I agree with poster before me who said the “trolls” here for the most part (the ones I interact with) to be friendly and intelligent and even though I may disagree with them I don’t have a problem with them.

 

[4thgenheel]

I think I did, but maybe not.

By itself, in a different time, there may be little to nothing "wrong" with her selection. In a time where Disney just replaced an very white, red-haired mermaid with a black woman, then replaces a very white character- "white as snow" as a matter of fact - with an olive skinned Hispanic woman, it smacks of DEI/Woke/politics, which appears was the path of Disney, though I think it will change.

On a side note, we went to Disneyland during my kids' fall break last year. I still drink Bud Light and, in fact, had many while watching Arizona Wildcats beat Akron, so I'm not one of those people.

for the 2nd time, the original little mermaid didn't have a certain look or ethnicity. hans christian andersen described her as having "eyes as blue as the deepest see." no mention of hair or skin color.

"olive skinned hispanic woman"..... zegler's grandmother immigrated from colombia in the 60's and her father is polish. she's a 3rd generation american. i mean, look at this woman. she looks like snow white. this is really getting tedious, you've jumped the shark here even moreso than usual.

 

[wmheel1287]

There are more and less qualified people for any job, but there are no white or black jobs. It made sense for Jamie Fox to play Ray Charles. That doesn't mean that portraying singers in a movie is a "black job".

It wouldn't make sense for Colin Farrell to play Ray Charles. That doesn't mean white people can't play singers in movies.

That's not what I said. I said that you took exception to two fictional characters being portrayed by someone who isn't white enough for your taste...did you not?

 

[ChileG]

"olive skinned hispanic woman"..... zegler's grandmother immigrated from colombia in the 60's and her father is polish. she's a 3rd generation american. i mean, look at this woman. she looks like snow white. this is really getting tedious, you've jumped the shark here even moreso than usual.

Yeah, I pointed this out several times.

If ZenMode did not know there was a controversy and saw this picture, is there any doubt that he wouldn’t have an issue with this particular actress?
I guess the one-drop rule is the standard here.

 

[BlooVooDoo]

There are more and less qualified people for any job, but there are no white or black jobs. It made sense for Jamie Fox to play Ray Charles. That doesn't mean that portraying singers in a movie is a "black job".

It wouldn't make sense for Colin Farrell to play Ray Charles. That doesn't mean white people can't play singers in movies.

If they did a remake of The Jazz Singer (starring the very white Al Jolson), would you choose Michael Buble over Lenny Kravitz?

 

[ChileG]

I did a quick wiki search for the film and went to the plot. I saw exactly what I expected to see.
Of course the main character being called “Snow White” due to her beautiful alabaster skin was fine in the 50s, but to continue that plot point in 2025 would of course be problematic.
I expected to see an alternate reason for the character being called “Snow White,” (I thought perhaps she would be named after her purity of heart or something), but she was born during a snowstorm, so that is how she got her name for the 2025 version.
I don’t think this is “DEI” or “woke” but just common sense.

 

[ZenMode]

That's not what I said. I said that you took exception to two fictional characters being portrayed by someone who isn't white enough for your taste...did you not?

No. I took exception to the unnecessary politicization of movie remakes.

 

[finesse]

No. I took exception to the unnecessary politicization of movie remakes.

I took exception when Disney took the violence out of the originals. WTF is it with bowlderizing the classics?

 

[superrific]

No. I took exception to the unnecessary politicization of movie remakes.

And this, in a nutshell, is what's wrong with your entire theory of DEI.

"Inclusion" is not an inherently political concept. When little kids play together, pretty much everyone gets included unless there is something wrong with a kid's behavior. Nobody accuses the kids of being "PC." That's just how people are.

Inclusion only becomes political in the face of exclusion. Exclusion is a learned behavior, and it's political by nature. Exclusion says, "you are part of our group and you over there are not." It's exclusion that is creating the problem.

So to say that minority representation "politicizes" confuses cause and effect. The exclusion is what's political. It's because you people fight inclusion that it's political. Inclusion itself is a natural human instinct.

If it weren't for right-wing racism, sexism, etc., inclusion wouldn't be seen as political at all. It would just be the way things are.

 

[ZenMode]

for the 2nd time, the original little mermaid didn't have a certain look or ethnicity. hans christian andersen described her as having "eyes as blue as the deepest see." no mention of hair or skin color.

"olive skinned hispanic woman"..... zegler's grandmother immigrated from colombia in the 60's and her father is polish. she's a 3rd generation american. i mean, look at this woman. she looks like snow white. this is really getting tedious, you've jumped the shark here even moreso than usual.

I haven't seen the movie, but that shot looks like there's a light on her face... or they whitened her up for the role: