Surgeon general calls for cancer warning labels on alcohol

HeelingAg said:
Yeah, 4-6 drinks a night is unequivocally alcoholism.
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No. Alcoholism is when it becomes an addiction. Some people can drink that much and never develop a dependency, either physical or mental. I did it for 20-30 years, quit the day I got my diagnosis, and never had a moment's issue. Admittedly, Stage 4 cancer is a powerful motivator but, as far as I know, it doesn't do anything for physical dependencies.
 
Booze and pill poppin.......its the American way. What an emotionally fucked up society we live in.
 
OGtruthhurts said:
Booze and pill poppin.......its the American way. What an emotionally fucked up society we live in.
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It's the animal way. Other species also routinely use intoxicants. To hell with a bunch of human exceptionalism. About the only thing special about us is that we can keep records, although mostly of our lies and legends.
 
finesse said:
No. Alcoholism is when it becomes an addiction. Some people can drink that much and never develop a dependency, either physical or mental. I did it for 20-30 years, quit the day I got my diagnosis, and never had a moment's issue. Admittedly, Stage 4 cancer is a powerful motivator but, as far as I know, it doesn't do anything for physical dependencies.
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I suppose there is argument for a small sliver of folks that can drink 4-6 drinks a day for 30 years and not be classified as having alcohol use disorder; I simply haven’t met them amongst the hundreds of people I’ve encountered, inpatient, with that pattern of drinking.

Also, withdrawals are a single criteria amongst several. Alcohol Use Disorder: A Comparison Between DSM–IV and DSM–5 | National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism (NIAAA). AUD includes criteria like [paraphrase] “I have to drink more than I use to for the same effect” and “I’ve engaged in risky activity during or soon after drinking (eg drive, operated machinery, went swimming, risky sexual encounter)”. You only need 2 of 11 criteria for a diagnosis.

Maybe a better way to phrase it is “it’s exceedingly unlikely that someone drinking 4-6 drinks everyday, for 20-30 years, doesn’t have AUD.”
 
Believe it or not, I never had any of those in my later years except the increased tolerance after my very early 20s. I never binge drank. I never missed work or family stuff. I generally quit drinking an hour or so before I went to bed. Even after 30 years, there was a point that I reached that, even if I had just poured a fresh drink, that I would stop drinking and put it in the fridge or freezer. Don't ask about the crazy shit I did in the early 70s. Not sure self medication and drug abuse are exactly the same issue although hard to separate.

Might just be how I'm wired. I quit smoking cold turkey after 20+ years of 2-3 packs a day. I did have physical and mental issues for a while with that one. It took two tries but I quit amphetamines the same way back in the 70s.

I definitely have or have had abuse issues but unlike a lot of my friends, I don't think I ever so much lost control as much as I didn't exercise any. For example, my BiL absolutely could not drink and it essentially killed him.
 
LosPollosHermanos said:
The numbers I saw on the subject didn't seem to amount to much at first glance. 20K supposed alcohol related cancer deaths out of the million+ deaths in the U.S. each year. And no info on how many of those are legit alcoholics as opposed to people blowing off steam with 4-6 drinks a night who might meet a technical medical definition.
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You can look at it a few ways:

-Its .7% of all deaths in the US
-Its 3% of cancer deaths
-Its 7% of preventable cancer deaths
-As BillofRights mentioned, its more deaths than drunk driving
 
finesse said:
Believe it or not, I never had any of those in my later years except the increased tolerance after my very early 20s. I never binge drank. I never missed work or family stuff. I generally quit drinking an hour or so before I went to bed. Even after 30 years, there was a point that I reached that, even if I had just poured a fresh drink, that I would stop drinking and put it in the fridge or freezer. Don't ask about the crazy shit I did in the early 70s. Not sure self medication and drug abuse are exactly the same issue although hard to separate.

Might just be how I'm wired. I quit smoking cold turkey after 20+ years of 2-3 packs a day. I did have physical and mental issues for a while with that one. It took two tries but I quit amphetamines the same way back in the 70s.

I definitely have or have had abuse issues but unlike a lot of my friends, I don't think I ever so much lost control as much as I didn't exercise any. For example, my BiL absolutely could not drink and it essentially killed him.
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So you survived stage 4 throat cancer in addition to all of that? "Might be just how you're wired?" Might be that you're wired like fucking Rasputin.
 
I drink a lot less than I used to, but in my adult life its always been an occasional drink and then only 2 maybe 3 drinks at most. I do enjoy a nice wine with some foods as well as some rum drink to unwind, but I can go weeks without drinking, no problem.
 
A few years ago it was probably about 8 to 10 drinks a week. Now it's probably four a month and that's tapering off.

Honestly feels so much healthier and my sleep is improved. Haven't lost a dagum ounce which is annoying.
 
Abstaining from alcohol seems to create cravings for carbs and sweets for a lot of people. I'm a whopping four days into a dry January and need to get the rest of my diet in order this coming week.
 
finesse said:
No. Alcoholism is when it becomes an addiction. Some people can drink that much and never develop a dependency, either physical or mental. I did it for 20-30 years, quit the day I got my diagnosis, and never had a moment's issue. Admittedly, Stage 4 cancer is a powerful motivator but, as far as I know, it doesn't do anything for physical dependencies.
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If you drink 4-6 a night medical professionals will label you an alcoholic. But like you say it's pretty damn common and tons of people do it their entire life with no issues. Out of the immediate circle of people I communicate with on a weekly basis, probably 30 people, at least ten of them drink this much. I do it and when I am forced to not do it because of whatever circumstance, it's not an issue.
 
My friend's dad - a doctor (may he RIP) - once said his older sister (in her late 80's at the time; he was in his 70's and retired) shared that her personal physician told her she needed to "stop smoking and quit drinking those gin tonics every day!".
My friend's dad told his sister: "Don't you dare! You'll drop dead in a minute if you do!"

I guess we'll all go ahead and draw our petty conclusions.
 
Centerpiece said:
My friend's dad - a doctor (may he RIP) - once said his older sister (in her late 80's at the time; he was in his 70's and retired) shared that her personal physician told her she needed to "stop smoking and quit drinking those gin tonics every day!".
My friend's dad told his sister: "Don't you dare! You'll drop dead in a minute if you do!"

I guess we'll all go ahead and draw our petty conclusions.
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Had a fieldwork with VA home health, a number of years ago. Primary service was Chatham and Alamance. Walked with 90+ year old vet from his trailer to his fishing hole. He told me “years ago” he dried out because god spoke to him while he was strolling that very path (the sun shone through some trees, or some such).

I asked him how his life had changed in the years since that day, and he responded “not one bit. I stopped drinking that day, my 88th birthday. I puked, shook, and sweated all the next day. Decided to have a six pack to take the edge off that night. I consider it my medicine, now. That SOB was trying to kill me.”

Some people just built different. On the flip, recently worked with a 28 yo post liver transplant. No known genetic issues, just college through mid twenties binge drinking, a couple of times per week.
 
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Centerpiece said:
My friend's dad - a doctor (may he RIP) - once said his older sister (in her late 80's at the time; he was in his 70's and retired) shared that her personal physician told her she needed to "stop smoking and quit drinking those gin tonics every day!".
My friend's dad told his sister: "Don't you dare! You'll drop dead in a minute if you do!"

I guess we'll all go ahead and draw our petty conclusions.
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"There's a lot of doctors tell me
That I'd better start slowing it down
But there's more old drunks than there are old doctors
So I guess we'd better have another round'

Willie Nelson
 
So, alcohol contributes to cancer.
  1. How much alcohol does one have to consume on a daily basis for alcohol to contribute to cancer?
  2. Does the alcohol percentage in a beverage matter?
  3. Is alcohol itself the problem or is it how the alcohol is produced?
  4. Does 5% alcohol (say a beer) contribute to esophageal cancer as much as a shot of whiskey?
 
Zoo_View said:
So, alcohol contributes to cancer.
  1. How much alcohol does one have to consume on a daily basis for alcohol to contribute to cancer?
  2. Does the alcohol percentage in a beverage matter?
  3. Is alcohol itself the problem or is it how the alcohol is produced?
  4. Does 5% alcohol (say a beer) contribute to esophageal cancer as much as a shot of whiskey?
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1. One drink increases cancer risk but more drinks tends to increase risks at a faster rate than just 1+1. An occasional drinker would have exponentially lower risk than a daily drinker possibly because the body has time to repair itself. There is also some question whether a one or two drink a night drinker would decrease his risk of cardiovascular death more than he increases his risk for cancer. As the number of daily drinks increases, that risk equation becomes much less of a question. More research needed there.
2. No. Alcohol is alcohol.
3. Its the alcohol, or specifically the ethanol. It interacts with the dna damaging cells, alters hormone levels for cancers like prostate and breast, and depletes nutrients like vitamin b which help protect against cancer. Some studies show red wine consumption is superior for heart health bit it makes no difference for cancer.
4. About equal. Even diluted alcohol like beer contains the ethanol which is the issue.
 
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