The sad case of Imane Khelif

[gtyellowjacket]

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This is a subject I've been paying close attention since the Dutee Chand case first became high-profile in 2014. You will note that the article, which I doubt you even read, is not biased in favor of any one position. It fairly discusses arguments on both sides of the testosterone debate and spends a good amount of time talking about the Chand case.

So, for essentially a decade I've had a nuanced understanding about testosterone testing and why it doesn't make sense as a solution to androgynous women and the alleged genetic advantages they have. You, on the other hand, appear to have read basically no scientific literature and then precede to tsk, tsk the rest of the board for being anti-science.

Honestly, you would benefit from taking some time to read the relevant literature and to educate yourself on the science before falsely moralizing to others on the board.

Perhaps you should have spent the last decade following the scientific literature a little more closely. Here are several more recent articles that describe the advantages that testosterone provides:

Female hyperandrogenism and elite sport

Emerging evidence indicates that testosterone, which can increase muscle mass and strength, stimulates erythropoiesis, promotes competitive behaviour, and enhances the physical performance of women. Indeed, the levels of testosterone within the normal ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Circulating Testosterone as the Hormonal Basis of Sex Differences in Athletic Performance

Elite athletic competitions have separate male and female events due to men’s physical advantages in strength, speed, and endurance so that a protected female category with objective entry criteria is required. Prior to puberty, there is no sex ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Effects of moderately increased testosterone concentration on physical performance in young women: a double blind, randomised, placebo controlled study | British Journal of Sports Medicine

Once again, "I definitely think testosterone is one of the factors that should come into play. It does give competitors a massive advantage over those that get much less through puberty."

 

[Ddseddse]

Correct and Ms Khelif may not fall under the other sexed criteria. We only have the claim of a biased boxing governing body who has not produced any test results they say they have.

But some women certainly do and we should be discussing policies on whether they should be allowed to compete.

No.

"We" shouldn't.

The governing bodies are all over this and have been from the start. WTF do you think that "we" have to add to this conversation?

How about "we" STFU and let the governing bodies which are 1) existentially vested in the outcome, 2) have expertise at their disposal that none of us have, 3) are in possession of the specific facts about individual cases that we are blind to... how about "we" let them get on with their business and "we" stop butting our ignorant noses in where they don't belong.

 

[Calheel]

Perhaps you should have spent the last decade following the scientific literature a little more closely. Here are several more recent articles that describe the advantages that testosterone provides:

Female hyperandrogenism and elite sport

Emerging evidence indicates that testosterone, which can increase muscle mass and strength, stimulates erythropoiesis, promotes competitive behaviour, and enhances the physical performance of women. Indeed, the levels of testosterone within the normal ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Circulating Testosterone as the Hormonal Basis of Sex Differences in Athletic Performance

Elite athletic competitions have separate male and female events due to men’s physical advantages in strength, speed, and endurance so that a protected female category with objective entry criteria is required. Prior to puberty, there is no sex ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Effects of moderately increased testosterone concentration on physical performance in young women: a double blind, randomised, placebo controlled study | British Journal of Sports Medicine

Once again, "I definitely think testosterone is one of the factors that should come into play. It does give competitors a massive advantage over those that get much less through puberty."

Out of curiosity, how many articles on Google did you have to skip over before you got to those two.

 

[gtyellowjacket]

No.

"We" shouldn't.

The governing bodies are all over this and have been from the start. WTF do you think that "we" have to add to this conversation?

How about "we" STFU and let the governing bodies which are 1) existentially vested in the outcome, 2) have expertise at their disposal that none of us have, 3) are in possession of the specific facts about individual cases that we are blind to... how about "we" let them get on with their business and "we" stop butting our ignorant noses in where they don't belong.

No. I think all of us ( or almost all of us) can continue to discuss the various issues involved like adults.

Out of curiosity, how many articles on Google did you have to skip over before you got to those two.

The first was number one. The second one was I think number four.

 

[superrific]

I love it when people post articles off google and DON'T EVEN BOTHER TO READ THE ABSTRACT. From the busy bee's third link above (I've edited slightly for readability):

Time-To-Exhaustion increased significantly by 21.17 s (8.5%) in the testosterone group compared with the placebo group (mean difference 15.5 s; P=0.045). Wingate average power was not significantly different between the groups (P=0.084). There were no significant changes in muscle strength as measured by Squat Jump, Counter Movement Jump, and knee extension peak torque.

So the testosterone gave the girls a bit more stamina (a modest gain of less than 10%) and no additional strength.