Toxic masculinity and red pilling boys and young men

[ChileG]

I went to Catholic school and we had sex Ed in 9th grade as part of health class. But it was about half the semester (iirc) and boys and girls were separated. It was very liberal. Down to the pros and cons of different forms of contraception, including the chance for impregnation for each type. The Catholic Church taught me all about IUDs when I was 14.
My dad told me the birds and bees when I was eight. I think learning the basic facts at around that age is the best time. Tell your kid how kids are made like a science teacher would.

 

[wmheel1287]

Lord, I thought we gay folks won the award for odd interactions with sex and relationships. Guess not. Young straight dudes seem very odd these days.

When I was in my early 20's, every dude in my friend circle was getting laid multiple times a week. I assumed that was still the case.

 

[Ragazzz52]

I got to think there was a lot of lying / exaggeration in your early 20’s. I worked hard at it and I never got to get laid multiple times in the same week. I assume that this includes different partners because I agree it was multiple times a week if you had a steady / almost engaged girlfriend.

 

[Lando]

One of the things I love about super is he’s totally transparent with things we should all be talking about but don’t. Very few young people know how to have enjoyable sex before they start trying. To fill that void, an extremely high percentage of young men turn to internet porn, which is certainly good for depicting sex, but is generally HORRIBLE at showing how to have enjoyable, connective sex. So as weird as it is to think about, I actually agree completely we’d be better served by having more education on the mechanics of consensual, connective sex. That would ideally happen in the home, but in the (almost ubiquitous) absence of that, we really should be intentional about alternatives to internet porn, which is almost always counterproductive.

The problem is that the person who needs to teach someone how to please their partner is their partner. We don't need to directly teach the mechanics so much as we need to help people communicate and remove the shame surrounding that communication. If both people communicate what they like and don't like (before, during, and after) without feeling ashamed about what they like and don't like then they'll figure it out, or at least figure out that they aren't a great match.

 

[TarHeeledTexan]

I’ll say that this thread hasn’t gone the direction I was expecting it to. And as a father of a 9th grade boy, I was hoping more to see a discussion of how others have tried to teach their sons the right way and keep a handle on what they are listening to and watching (and how to direct them away from red pilling).

 

[Lando]

I think it’s all communication. In the absence of communication confused kids will be very susceptible to online schmucks that will be happy to tell them how the world is. If young men are free to communicate with sane adults and the young women around them the appeal of the Fresh and Fit crowd will be significantly lessened.

 

[SnoopRob]

If it is the primary or only goal, then just pay for it. It's much easier and cost less in the long run.

 

[superrific]

I’ll say that this thread hasn’t gone the direction I was expecting it to. And as a father of a 9th grade boy, I was hoping more to see a discussion of how others have tried to teach their sons the right way and keep a handle on what they are listening to and watching (and how to direct them away from red pilling).

1. I mentioned teaching my son. I guess you want more input and that's fine.
2. I can't help you too much on the red pilling thing. I started teaching my sons about gender roles and gender issue when they were 6 or 7. By the time my eldest would have been in a position to be red-pilled, he had long been conditioned to reject it. That's not to say it's too late for you, not by any means. It just means I can't help much.
3. For folks who might yet have kids, start teaching your kids young. Like age 5 or 6. That's when I started showing them the evils of heroin and other drugs, and also talking about what it means to be a male. I didn't do sex ed that young. They don't need to know about sex to learn the importance of respecting women.

If you start that young, it gets burned into their synapses, so to speak. Maybe I will be back here in five years complaining about my red-pilled son, but I really don't see that happening. He just has no interest in that sort of thing. He's got a gf, and in HS he had multiple girls chasing him. It turns out that even HS girls like boys who listen to them, are kind, and take them seriously. So unless something changes in a dramatic way, he's got himself set up pretty well.

I'm no child psychologist, but my experience says -- start early. The earlier, the better. Just like with foreign languages. Get what you want burned into their brains.

 

[superrific]

The problem is that the person who needs to teach someone how to please their partner is their partner. We don't need to directly teach the mechanics so much as we need to help people communicate and remove the shame surrounding that communication. If both people communicate what they like and don't like (before, during, and after) without feeling ashamed about what they like and don't like then they'll figure it out, or at least figure out that they aren't a great match.

I think this is asking way too much of young people, and the people who are supposed to teach them how to communicate with each other.

But really, it doesn't have to be an either/or thing. Give young men a clue how to get started so they don't feel embarrassed. Give them a realistic sense of what to expect, physically and emotionally. Then teach them the communication part, which will be more useful if they have some experience.

 

[Geisterfahrer]

I’ll say that this thread hasn’t gone the direction I was expecting it to. And as a father of a 9th grade boy, I was hoping more to see a discussion of how others have tried to teach their sons the right way and keep a handle on what they are listening to and watching (and how to direct them away from red pilling).

With our boy, now 17, we completely banned social media except for discord, which he uses when he’s gaming and we’re usually in the room. He has no desire to be on TT or IG, and doesn’t feel the need to knuckle on peer pressure. He plays a lot of the standard stuff (Roblox, Skyrim, etc) and we let him make those choices after discussion. We talk to him a lot and we’re lucky that he’s never felt the need to pull far away.

But I really think social media is a plague and super destructive for kids’ well being.

We also talk a lot about politics and treat him like an adult, soliciting his opinion and letting him challenge us as well as challenging him.

 

[superrific]

With our boy, now 17, we completely banned social media except for discord, which he uses when he’s gaming and we’re usually in the room. He has no desire to be on TT or IG, and doesn’t feel the need to knuckle on peer pressure. He plays a lot of the standard stuff (Roblox, Skyrim, etc) and we let him make those choices after discussion. We talk to him a lot and we’re lucky that he’s never felt the need to pull far away.

But I really think social media is a plague and super destructive for kids’ well being.

We also talk a lot about politics and treat him like an adult, soliciting his opinion and letting him challenge us as well as challenging him.

Discord is where a lot of bad stuff goes down.

 

[Geisterfahrer]

Discord is where a lot of bad stuff goes down.

He’s only on closed servers.

 

[aGDevil2k]

Thankfully there are more girls than boys

 

[Duke Mu]

Something like that. It's more like 80 words a minute, but as importantly, I think at 80 words a minute. That's why my long posts can be long. I'm not actually spending all day posts. I just write quickly so maybe it seems that way.

3:33

 

[Duke Mu]

I blame Nick Adams....

That screams incel.

 

[Duke Mu]

Young bucks, you better learn how to flirt and how to communicate. Women have sex between the ears, not between the hip joints. Mike Royko coined the ability to "grab them by the brain" the cute meet.

 

[Duke Mu]

A masterclass:

 

[wmheel1287]

I got to think there was a lot of lying / exaggeration in your early 20’s. I worked hard at it and I never got to get laid multiple times in the same week. I assume that this includes different partners because I agree it was multiple times a week if you had a steady / almost engaged girlfriend.

My friend circle at UNC were primarily the baseball team. That might have a lot to do with it.

 

[superrific]

I always this was a really good scene for teaching young men how to socialize with women. It doesn't have to be complicated. Just ask questions, pay attention and listen.



Start at 1:04, to get over Neil's fear about being found out.

 

[TarHeeledTexan]

With our boy, now 17, we completely banned social media except for discord, which he uses when he’s gaming and we’re usually in the room. He has no desire to be on TT or IG, and doesn’t feel the need to knuckle on peer pressure. He plays a lot of the standard stuff (Roblox, Skyrim, etc) and we let him make those choices after discussion. We talk to him a lot and we’re lucky that he’s never felt the need to pull far away.

But I really think social media is a plague and super destructive for kids’ well being.

We also talk a lot about politics and treat him like an adult, soliciting his opinion and letting him challenge us as well as challenging him.

Somewhat similar with my son. We haven’t had to ban social media as he’s shown no interest in TT, IG, etc., though he and his friends do text a lot and watch lots of stupid YT videos. He hangs out with his friends IRL a lot and plays Fortnite.

The main rule is that I have his phone passcode and can go on it whenever I want to see what he’s been up to. I also can easily see what he’s been watching on YT or searching on Google, since his account is tied to mine. So far, he hasn’t been on anything worrying and hasn’t shown great aptitude yet for knowing how to hide what he’s up to.

I do like his friends and he comes from a fairly liberal family with plenty of opinionated women who wouldn’t put up with BS stuff from him. But I don’t really know what he and his friends are like when there are no adult eyes on them, and I don’t know what he hears from peers at school.

Basically, you hope you have done and are doing right, but there’s only so much you can do without being a control freak on them, which in theory of thing that just drives them the wrong direction.