Toxic masculinity and red pilling boys and young men

  • Thread starter Thread starter nycfan
  • Start date Start date
  • Replies: 211
  • Views: 4K
  • Politics 
Lando said:
The problem is that the person who needs to teach someone how to please their partner is their partner. We don't need to directly teach the mechanics so much as we need to help people communicate and remove the shame surrounding that communication. If both people communicate what they like and don't like (before, during, and after) without feeling ashamed about what they like and don't like then they'll figure it out, or at least figure out that they aren't a great match.
Click to expand...
Ding ding ding. If you've experienced sex with more than one person then you know that people are excited, pleased, etc. by different things. There's no way to teach someone how to be a great lover through mechanics, because those "moves" won't work on everyone. It's far more important to teach communication.
 
HesNaughtHere said:
Thanks for starting this, I thought it was an interesting discussion on the other thread but needed to be spun off.

It's certainly an alarming trend and I'm not sure that a lot of people realize just how much momentum it seems to have.

There seems to be a pipeline from more comedy-oriented influencers (with some occasional non-PC but not super offensive jokes), into more politically focused influencers. I've seen it play out first-hand several times in the past few years even.

I will say that progressives are, by and large, awful at messaging to young males. Having studied/worked on college campuses for the last decade, it can often feel like straight, cis, white, Christian, Southern, etc males are the boogeyman to be blamed for everything. Throw in increased conversations around "toxic masculinity" and things like that and it's pretty easy to see how that could leave one feeling attacked. I'm pretty liberal overall, and I even find it tiresome at times. Not enough to push me into supporting the clownshow of the political right, but I can see how a group of influencers repeating that you're not actually the problem would be appealing.

Don't get me wrong, that's not the way these young men should be reacting, but it's at least somewhat understandable.
Click to expand...
For some influencers its not so much that they tell young men they aren't the problem, it's that they are the problem but it's not fixable. It's simply the natural order. And while there are "High value men" willing to give advice as to how to join them on the top of the mountain, the advice is weird and impossible to follow. They exist to be an unobtainable standard, to exist as proof that the listener doesn't really stand a chance.

Telling a terminally online kid that in order to get what he thinks society demands of him that he'll need to leave the security of his online spaces, work on a form of socialization that does not come naturally, find appropriate spaces for him out in the real work, and get ready for a fistful of rejection might be correct, but it sucks to hear. It doesn't provide a clear explanation for their difficulties and certainly doesn't provide a simple "Do X and get Y" plan that they can be confident in. Telling that same kid that women are hypergamous so people like him just can't win isn't exactly awesome to hear, but it's easy to understand and doesn't require all of that hard work. Incels don't gravitate to a guy like Peterson because he says incels are awesome (he doesn't) but because he provides an explanation of the world that's easy to digest and explains their struggles.

These guys do have a kryptonite: normal men. Some goofy looking guy who did well because he was comfortable with himself and funny can't be explained by the manosphere. These high value alpha males look absurd when contrasted with successful, normal people.
 
gregh1 said:
The bro culture stuff extends across all races?
Click to expand...
One thing that surprised and annoyed me was seeing this happen to nonwhite YouTube creators.

Several years ago there was that viral video of the 2 black teens reacting to Phil Collins’ “In the Air Tonight.” I loved watching their reactions to “white” music and that led me down a rabbit hole to a bunch of black creators who basically did the same thing: listen to rock music and react to it. Brad and Lex, Asia and BJ, Rob Squad Reactions, etc - all super fun to watch.

But one thing you start to see with all these channels over time is people trying to get them to watch red pill material, or “anti woke” stuff. This dumbass comedian Tom MacDonald, if any of y’all know of him. Some Canadian guy whose whole shtick is attacking “woke” people.

There’s a popular YouTube channel called The Cartier Family. It’s like 5 guys who were on the track team at Louisiana-Lafayette. Same basic premise. Black guys reacting to white music, comedy, movies etc. And they got majorly red pilled and ended up featured at the RNC.

 
I used to work at a Unitarian church, and they had a sex-ed program they had developed in partnership with the Congregationalists, designed by a team of child development experts, ethicists, etc. I went into it managing a small group of jr. high kids, and was extremely apprehensive about it. But after one or two sessions, I came to realize how incredibly important thoughtful, value-based sex education was. It was so much fun...honest, disarming, hilarious. I will 100 percent put my own son through it, from preshool to high school. Could not recommend it more. It's called OWL, or "Our Whole Lives"

en.wikipedia.org

Our Whole Lives - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
 
I think the main difference today is a larger portion of boys aren't out growing this content. Gen Z/Alpha are much more online and with other societal shifts less will grow out of the nonsense

A majority will but more angry ignorant young men around raises probability of bad outcomes for a society and especially women. Like we've seen with other fringe ideas these things have a way of being sanitized and made mainstream
 
Heelsandeers said:
I think the main difference today is a larger portion of boys aren't out growing this content. Gen Z/Alpha are much more online and with other societal shifts less will grow out of the nonsense

A majority will but more angry ignorant young men around raises probability of bad outcomes for a society and especially women. Like we've seen with other fringe ideas these things have a way of being sanitized and made mainstream
Click to expand...
Good point. I was at the barber shop the other day and the guy cutting my hair and several others were talking about how smart Jordan Peterson is. These guys were all older than me (probably in their late 20s-early 40s), but it was clear that they were exposed to the same type of content that is leading young men down this path.
 
Paine said:
Good point. I was at the barber shop the other day and the guy cutting my hair and several others were talking about how smart Jordan Peterson is. These guys were all older than me (probably in their late 20s-early 40s), but it was clear that they were exposed to the same type of content that is leading young men down this path.
Click to expand...
My brother is 60 and is getting drawn into this crap.
 
SnoopRob said:
If?
Click to expand...
Thankfully, I don’t think we’re at the point where fascism has fully recrystallized into a political force. There are numerous fash adjacent figures and actual fascists, but they have yet to fully coalesce together w/ the business class to create fascism.
 
Paine said:
Thankfully, I don’t think we’re at the point where fascism has fully recrystallized into a political force. There are numerous fash adjacent figures and actual fascists, but they have yet to fully coalesce together w/ the business class to create fascism.
Click to expand...
MAGA is fascism. We may not have succumbed all the way into a fascist government, but we certainly have fascism on the ballot at all levels of the country at this point.
 
SnoopRob said:
MAGA is fascism. We may not have succumbed all the way into a fascist government, but we certainly have fascism on the ballot at all levels of the country at this point.
Click to expand...
We’re in agreement. I think a second Trump term would bring about fascism or something close enough to it to be very bad for the country and world.
 
Young men were the engine of every conflict. Almost all soldiers in history have been men, the vast majority of whom were young. This goes for goons and paramilitaries as well.
 
superrific said:
Young men were the engine of every conflict. Almost all soldiers in history have been men, the vast majority of whom were young. This goes for goons and paramilitaries as well.
Click to expand...


War is a place where the young kill one another without knowing or hating each other, because of the decision of old people who know and hate each other, without killing each other.-- Erich Hartmann
 
superrific said:
Young men were the engine of every conflict. Almost all soldiers in history have been men, the vast majority of whom were young. This goes for goons and paramilitaries as well.
Click to expand...
There’s a difference between the disaffection we’re talking about in this thread and young men being soldiers generally.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top