Trump Admin dismantling Dept. of Education — mass firings underway

[superrific]

I don't think there is a way you can guarantee workers aren't sitting around doing nothing anymore than I can guarantee they are.

To use your bloat analogy, bloat would be more like we had a bunch of workers to count ballots by hand. We got a new electronic counting system and needed half as many workers but there was no procedure to reduce headcount. So now we have workers doing nothing or being half as productive.

Do you really think there is no way to reduce headcount? Is that based on anything? Oh, right, you're you.

There are basically no federal workers sitting around doing nothing. Once during the Bush administration, they found an SEC staffer who was watching porn 40 hours a week. He was fired. There are always going to be a few people doing nothing, just like in every big private organization. But they either get transferred, fired, or they leave for elsewhere.

 

[gtyellowjacket]

This may have already been stated in another thread—the federal workforce has been roughly the same size (around 3 million workers) for the last 60 years or so.

The US population has nearly doubled during that time.

So as a percentage of the total workforce in the US, the fed government employs a far smaller share than ever before.

The idea that there’s “bloat” in the workforce is patently dumb.

Population has doubled but productivity has tripled during that same 60-year. The idea that there's no bloat in the workforce is "blatantly" dumb.

 

[mpaer]

Population has doubled but productivity has tripled during that same 60-year. The idea that there's no bloat in the workforce is "blatantly" dumb.

Okay
Discuss some specific bloat

 

[finesse]

Population has doubled but productivity has tripled during that same 60-year. The idea that there's no bloat in the workforce is "blatantly" dumb.

Want to guess what has happened to the size of government in that time and the increased responsibilities put on it?

 

[superrific]

I think this becomes one of those the enemy the good is the perfect situation. A month ago we didn't have any database of cuts that were being made or not made, even a bad database. There was no place that listed any of the cuts. Was anyone out there criticizing the fact that there was no database? I'd rather have what we have now than what we had a month ago And I'd rather have an easily searchable database with more details than what we have today. But I don't want to wait for that better database. I'd rather have the bad one now.

If you prefer a database riddled with errors over no database, then you're more of a clown than I thought.

And how exactly would you have a database of cuts not made?

It's not as if the information about facilities -- to take one example -- isn't publicly available. Just because you don't know how to find it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Here, let me help you with a 3 second google. Note: the GSA database is not exposing CIA black sites.

Federal Real Property Public Data Set

Pursuant to the Federal Asset Sales and Transfer Act of 2016, GSA is publishing data from the Federal Real Property Profile Management System (FRPP MS), which is the federal government’s database of all real property under the custody and control of all executive branch agencies.

www.gsa.gov

 

[Duke Mu]

Maybe. And I'm guessing if it's a congressionally mandated program, the courts are going to clap back.

But if it is a situation where Congress, for example says we're going to give $2 billion to usaid to further democracy efforts, abdicating responsibility to the executive branch on what those specifics are, I think the proper role of the elected executive is to make those decisions and cut programs that are not benefiting the taxpayer.

Article 1. The courts role is to defend Artilcle. Our democracy is hanging on a 5-4 balance with 2 of the "conservatives lol" siding with the Constitution.

Both Pubs and Dems in Congress are spineless. the People are trying - Dems need to pick of find a leader and they need to voice the Fact Checking against the Trump Flood the Zone Firehose of BS.

 

[superrific]

Article 1. The courts role is to defend Artilcle. Our democracy is hanging on a 5-4 balance with 2 of the "conservatives lol" siding with the Constitution.

Both Pubs and Dems in Congress are spineless. the People are trying - Dems need to pick of find a leader and they need to voice the Fact Checking against the Trump Flood the Zone Firehose of BS.

Again we must ask: what the fuck do you want the Dems to do?

After 10 years of fact-checking Trump making no difference, what makes you think it will work now?

Here's what happened. After the pandemic, people romanticized life before the pandemic, and thus forgot about all of Trump's epic disasters. Voters somehow got it in their minds -- against all evidence to the contrary -- that Trump was a great, visionary leader who cares for his loyal flock and would lead the US to greatness. The basis of this view was Trump saying that he would lead the US to greatness.

The only way to break the spell is to let Trump fuck it all up. That's a really shitty solution but what are the options?

 

[gtyellowjacket]

Want to guess what has happened to the size of government in that time and the increased responsibilities put on it?

Some parts got bigger like IT and drug research while some parts got smaller like the military and the farm bureau. But I was specifically responding to our eyeball who said that our population had doubled while our government had remained the same size. It's just not that an informative of a measurement and really neither is mine.

 

[ColdBlueSteel]

This may have already been stated in another thread—the federal workforce has been roughly the same size (around 3 million workers) for the last 60 years or so.

The US population has nearly doubled during that time.

So as a percentage of the total workforce in the US, the fed government employs a far smaller share than ever before.

The idea that there’s “bloat” in the workforce is patently dumb.

Does “federal workforce” include consultants and contractors?

 

[superrific]

Some parts got bigger like IT and drug research

What drug research does the federal government do?

 

[dcf2]

Parts of NCATS and smaller parts of ARPA-H depending on how one defines drug research.

 

[ChapelHillSooner]

Just imagine it wasn't a very popular government program.

Imagine it was some guy in a Ramada inn conference room pitching a life-changing investment to you. All you need to do is give me 15% of your earnings for 40 years. I'll use that money to fund the retirements of the folks that were in the program before you but don't worry, the people that get in after you will be paying for your retirement. Would you invest in something like that or would you call the police?

And I don't think anyone is going to confuse Rogan with Tim Russert, but he did ask some pretty pointed questions about Social Security fraud. This is certainly better than just tweeting.

That is about the dumbest hypothetical I have every seen.

I have far more faith in our government (at least I did before Trump) than I would have in some random guy in a Ramada Inn conference room. Of course nobody would ever trust a random guy to administer such a scheme.

Also social security has almost nothing in common with ponzi schemes. Ponzi schemes inevitably collapse. There is no reason a social security program acting under the parameters you describe must collapse.

There are challenges. We are facing one with baby boomers in retirement age and not enough young people paying in. Another is people living longer than expected. Another is government stealing from the social security system.

But if properly managed a social security system can last forever. Ponzi schemes cannot.

 

[tonman]

I don't think there is a way you can guarantee workers aren't sitting around doing nothing anymore than I can guarantee they are.

To use your bloat analogy, bloat would be more like we had a bunch of workers to count ballots by hand. We got a new electronic counting system and needed half as many workers but there was no procedure to reduce headcount. So now we have workers doing nothing or being half as productive.

There is always a procedure to reduce headcount. You assume that those workers can only do the one thing they do for as long as they work. That electronic counting system may take half workers to operate and IS faster and more accurate but maintaining it costs more that maintaining paper. The point isn't necessarily reduce headcount. The point is to properly staff the federal govt. You may have areas where there is redundancy but I can guarantee you there are areas where there are shortages if workers....say the FAA.

I don't think there is a way you can guarantee workers aren't sitting around doing nothing anymore than I can guarantee they are.

To use your bloat analogy, bloat would be more like we had a bunch of workers to count ballots by hand. We got a new electronic counting system and needed half as many workers but there was no procedure to reduce headcount. So now we have workers doing nothing or being half as productive.

Or doing another job. You have more maintenance with that system but you are more efficient needing less workers to do the original job but need to add workers to maintain the system. The point isn't necessarily to reduce headcount. It is to properly staff the govt. Like the FAA.

 

[Duke Mu]

Again we must ask: what the fuck do you want the Dems to do?

After 10 years of fact-checking Trump making no difference, what makes you think it will work now?

Here's what happened. After the pandemic, people romanticized life before the pandemic, and thus forgot about all of Trump's epic disasters. Voters somehow got it in their minds -- against all evidence to the contrary -- that Trump was a great, visionary leader who cares for his loyal flock and would lead the US to greatness. The basis of this view was Trump saying that he would lead the US to greatness.

The only way to break the spell is to let Trump fuck it all up. That's a really shitty solution but what are the options?

Message and Lead. The People are rising up. Support the movement. Take out national ads or better have PACS do that. AOC, Pritzker, Wes Moor.e Someone is going to have to carry the torch. Waiting for Trump to wreck the country again

I completely disagree...and I have the breadth of human history to back it up.


Because there is a VOID of leadership on the Dem end, regular folks are believing checks are being mailed to 160 year olds and cashed or not by random family member. That government workers are watching pron instead of their jobs (more than the private sector). Each department had an Inspector General whose independent job description was to ensure that workers were focused and on task. Most federal workers that I have talked to or been associated with are very hard workers, are minimally paid, and are interested in serving the country. Trump and Musk are interested in serving themselves.

We don't have Prime Minister's Questions in the US. But the Opposition Party has to serve an adversarial fole. In fact, it is their DUTY as consistent with our Constitutional form of government to hold the other political accountable. So, in my view, the lazy government workers are on the Dem side of Congress. Make an argument. Filibuster. Hold Press Conferences. Conduct Town Halls. Don't just site their and hold a f*****g sign!

 

[Bigs23]

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by bad faith but I'll try to interpret. I honestly think that going on an interview style program where the interviewer can ask questions to challenge Musk is a bit more helpful to understand his actions and more difficult for Musk than just tweeting.

And I really don't think Musk is speaking in hypotheticals as much as he's generalizing the scope of some of the problems. He's also put up his wall of receipts of real cuts he's making for people to examine and criticize. This is in contrast to someone like Trump who just says there's fraud and waste and we're going to get rid of it.

He went on Rogan for crissakes. WTF is wrong with you?

 

[Bigs23]

Message and Lead. The People are rising up. Support the movement. Take out national ads or better have PACS do that. AOC, Pritzker, Wes Moor.e Someone is going to have to carry the torch. Waiting for Trump to wreck the country again

I completely disagree...and I have the breadth of human history to back it up.


Because there is a VOID of leadership on the Dem end, regular folks are believing checks are being mailed to 160 year olds and cashed or not by random family member. That government workers are watching pron instead of their jobs (more than the private sector). Each department had an Inspector General whose independent job description was to ensure that workers were focused and on task. Most federal workers that I have talked to or been associated with are very hard workers, are minimally paid, and are interested in serving the country. Trump and Musk are interested in serving themselves.

We don't have Prime Minister's Questions in the US. But the Opposition Party has to serve an adversarial fole. In fact, it is their DUTY as consistent with our Constitutional form of government to hold the other political accountable. So, in my view, the lazy government workers are on the Dem side of Congress. Make an argument. Filibuster. Hold Press Conferences. Conduct Town Halls. Don't just site their and hold a f*****g sign!

 

[sringwal]

Message and Lead. The People are rising up. Support the movement. Take out national ads or better have PACS do that. AOC, Pritzker, Wes Moor.e Someone is going to have to carry the torch. Waiting for Trump to wreck the country again

What people are rising up? Where are these people? What movement. Because I am seeing shockingly little action in the streets, or anywhere else, considering what is going on.

 

[farce©]

I'm sure there was a point where Bernie Madoff had never missed a payment. Now calm down. I don't think Social Security is going to miss a payment because I think any politician that tried to do that, including Trump, would be committing political suicide. But I do think as it's currently structured it sounds an awful lot like a Ponzi scheme.

Your argumentative strategy is wholly disingenuous. You don’t tell people to calm down when they are calling out your bullshit. That is the first clue you aren’t simply wrong but you know you are lying.

 

[farce©]

That’s how these things work gt. I think you’re smart enough to realize this.

This is the same line Republicans have used for decades and decades. They can’t come right out and say they want to cut social security as you point out. So what they say is there is some kind of fraud going on. Dubya did the same exact thing. It is a pretext to cut benefits. They trot out the same language about Medicaid.

But it doesn’t serve gt’s agenda to admit this.

 

[gtyellowjacket]

He went on Rogan for crissakes. WTF is wrong with you?

Nothing. Well a lot, but I think discussing an Elon interview on Rogan is very far down the list of what is wrong with me.

And I think there is less wrong with Rogan than people think. I used to think he had lost the plot and gone MAGA but then I started watching some of his interviews instead of the sound bites. At this point, I think he is an engaging, curious, sometimes fact challenged, blue collar interviewer with views that don't closely adhere to one party or the other. His format is much more longform than some of the more mainstream shows so you get more nuance and depth from the interviewee. I'm okay with that vs some of the more rabidly partisan interviewers that challenge their guests with impossible questions, cut off their answers before having to take an ad break. Or the interviewers that fawn all over Trump/Kamala or whatever celebrity guest that they are able to book.