Trump Admin dismantling Dept. of Education — mass firings underway

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heelinhell said:
That's a joke, right ? Please tell me that's a joke:unsure:
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Unless proven otherwise, it's probably true.

it's easier to just assume the dumb, stupid, and shity things quoted and posted by people and attributed to our presidont and his nazi handler are true
 
NOVAHEEL13 said:
Unless proven otherwise, it's probably true.

it's easier to just assume the dumb, stupid, and shity things quoted and posted by people and attributed to our presidont and his nazi handler are true
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That is certainly ZenMode’s methodology in posting the slew of misinformation he litters this board with. Then when shown to be wrong (and why y’all bother with it is still a mystery to me) he just say “I’ll take your word for it.”
 
ZenMode said:
Other than student loan management, is there any reason to believe that the DoEd is actually improving education in the US?
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It's difficult until we have separation of church and state in education also. We need less focus on ancient myths about history and religion and fewer impediments to real science, civics and respect for research and verified information.
 
wmheel1287 said:
How are kids with disabilities treated now compared to 40 years ago? I'm pretty sure you don't care about the answer to that question but it does answer your original query.
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A lot of perceptions have changed over 40 years. I'm sure things have improved for kids with disabilities, but how much of it is due to the DoEd handing out money? Do we believe states would completely drop the ball, today, with disabled kids without the DoEd?

The DoEd doesn't (can't) do anything about what is taught in schools or how well things are taught in schools. They hand out money for various things including student loans.

I'm not saying they do nothing, but do they need to exist as a separate department to handout money and manage student loans? I guess I just don't see what is so critical about what they do that makes the potential closure so distressing.
 
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"Handing out money" isn't the sole purpose of the Department of Education

If you would like to know more, read this before the information gets removed.

www.ed.gov

An Overview of the Department of Education

Information about the U.S. Department of Education's mission, organization, and strategic plans.
www.ed.gov www.ed.gov

This is a decent overview as well:

www.theguardian.com

What is the US Department of Education and what does it do?

Donald Trump signed an executive order to undo the federal department on Thursday
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
 
sringwal said:
"Handing out money" isn't the sole purpose of the Department of Education

If you would like to know more, read this before the information gets removed.

www.ed.gov

An Overview of the Department of Education

Information about the U.S. Department of Education's mission, organization, and strategic plans.
www.ed.gov www.ed.gov

This is a decent overview as well:

www.theguardian.com

What is the US Department of Education and what does it do?

Donald Trump signed an executive order to undo the federal department on Thursday
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
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From the Ed.gov site, the role that DoEd has as it relates to students:

1. The Department of Education—
establishes policies relating to federal financial aid for education, administers distribution of those funds and monitors their use.
Like most federal activities, Department of Education programs must first be authorized by Congress through legislation that is signed into law by the president. The Department then develops regulations that determine exactly how a program will be operated. These regulations are published in the Federal Register for public comment and reviewed by Congress. Congress must also vote to appropriate the money that each program will receive annually.

The Department distributes financial aid to eligible applicants throughout the nation for early childhood, elementary, secondary and postsecondary education programs. Federal programs benefit all students, and special programs exist to serve individuals with disabilities, those who live in poverty, American Indians, immigrants and those with limited English proficiency. Federal funds for education are distributed using three methods: a set formula, competition and financial need determination.

By formula: Some programs follow a formula prescribed in the bill approved by Congress authorizing a program. Such a program might be set up so that qualified agencies receive an amount of money that is determined by the number of students meeting certain criteria in that state or school district. For example, under the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act, the Department allocates money to the states to help them provide a free, appropriate public education for children with disabilities based on the number of children reported by each state as having special developmental or educational needs.

By competition: Federal money also is awarded on the merit of competitive applications. Applicants are ranked in order of merit and the most qualified applications are awarded funds. Those eligible for such funding include state and local education agencies or school districts; education partnerships (programs jointly sponsored by education institutions and the private sector); colleges and universities; individual researchers; and community-based organizations such as nonprofit agencies.

By financial need determination: The third basis on which federal money is awarded is financial need. For example, postsecondary students applying for grants, loans and fellowships must prove family financial need according to established guidelines.

Any handing out of money that is truly necessary can be handled by another department. One has been mentioned, but I don't recall the name.

2. The Department of Education—
collects data and oversees research on America's schools and disseminates this information to Congress, educators and the general public.
The Department oversees research on most aspects of education; collects data on trends; and gathers information to help identify best practices in education, including teaching techniques that work. Employees of the Department, as well as contractors and grant recipients, carry out the research.

Research findings and statistics are disseminated to educators, policymakers, parents, researchers and the general public in the form of reports and publications—both printed and online. Recent publications have covered the latest national assessments of educational progress in a variety of subject areas, innovations in education, the condition of education in America, annual reports on a variety of federal education programs, how to improve mathematics education and many other pertinent education topics. In a typical year, the Department publishes hundreds of publications and millions of copies to meet the public's demand for information.

3. The Department of Education—
identifies the major issues and problems in education and focuses national attention on them.
The Department makes recommendations for education reform. The secretary advises the president in this regard and leads the Department in implementing the president's education policies in many arenas—from the preparation of legislative proposals for Congress to decisions about education research priorities. Of vital importance in formulating and implementing policies is the Department's close work with a variety of advisory groups and organizations composed of citizens from all walks of life who have an interest and expertise in education and who provide significant ideas on key policies and programs.

In addition, the secretary brings national attention to education issues by giving speeches, writing articles for publication, addressing the media and making personal appearances in schools and other education settings. The Department further highlights education issues by sponsoring and participating in national conferences and other similar activities, such as the Blue Ribbon Schools and Presidential Scholars award programs, the Teaching Ambassador Fellows Program, the Student Art Exhibit Program, and special events and ceremonies to honor teachers or students.

Neither 2 or 3 (collecting and analyzing data) seems to be that critical, particularly given that, again, the DoEd can not dictate curriculum or anything related to the actual education of students. Schools, school districts, etc already analyze their own data.

4. The Department of Education—
enforces federal statutes prohibiting discrimination in programs and activities receiving federal funds and ensures equal access to education for every individual.
The Department enforces five civil rights statutes to ensure equal educational opportunity for all students, regardless of race, color, national origin, sex, disability or age.

We already have a department responsible for ensuring civil rights aren't violated.
 
BlueSteel said:
How is none of this setting off major alarms within both parties? I guaran-cotdamn-tee you if this was a Dem thing, the 25th would be invoked by now. What the actual phuck.
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Probably because anyone can look and see where the current system has gotten us. Exactly how much de we spend per student in this county? How does number that compare to what the rest of the world spends? And where exactly does this country rank in the world with regards student performance?

Look up those answers and it might enlighten you as to why the country isn't in full meltdown about replacing the current system.
 
PandemicBlue said:
Probably because anyone can look and see where the current system has gotten us. Exactly how much de we spend per student in this county? How does number that compare to what the rest of the world spends? And where exactly does this country rank in the world with regards student performance?

Look up those answers and it might enlighten you as to why the country isn't in full meltdown about replacing the current system.
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You're making the assertion. You provide the numbers to support what you're trying to sell. I don't think you have them.
 
The US spends more than pretty much all of our peer countries with the exception of Luxembourg which really blows it out of the water.

We spend about 10% more than the UK on primary education and 20% more on secondary and tertiary education. The tertiary spend may be misleading as it does include r&d spent which I would assume the US that's quite a bit more than other countries but don't really know.

www.statista.com

OECD: expenditure per student on education 2020 | Statista

Out of the OECD countries, Luxembourg was the country that spent the most on educational institutions per full-time student in 2020.
www.statista.com www.statista.com

Not sure how that compares to results.
 
PandemicBlue said:
Probably because anyone can look and see where the current system has gotten us. Exactly how much de we spend per student in this county? How does number that compare to what the rest of the world spends? And where exactly does this country rank in the world with regards student performance?

Look up those answers and it might enlighten you as to why the country isn't in full meltdown about replacing the current system.
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The problem with the current system isn't the federal government. It's the states. Your team wants to "return" control to the very entities that are responsible for American education being sucky.

This isn't hard to grasp. Just look at which states ALWAYS lag behind the rest of the country. If it was a Dept of Ed problem, then Alabama and Mississippi and Florida and SC wouldn't be in the bottom 10 year after year. There's a little fluctuation year by year, but as long as I've been alive, the worst public school systems are always a) in the south; b) red states; c) in areas with high levels of racial animus; and d) high proportion of evangelicals. The one exception is that West Virginia is only fairly recently a red state, and it's been terrible for a long time.

Anyway, the reason for this, of course, is that those states aren't really interested in creating good public schools. Just look at the superintendent in Oklahoma. These states are not primarily concerned with test scores or academic achievement levels; they are interested in putting religion in schools and taking history out. These are the places that were fighting for a long time to teach creationism, and then when that failed, they changed it to "intelligent design."

These states pay teachers badly, and they do not have highly regarded university systems. Smart kids in North Carolina have a flagship university to attend, so they don't have to leave the state. University of Alabama ain't University of North Carolina. Smart kids in Alabama are well advised to leave the state for college, and anyway, why would good teachers want to stay in Alabama? Not everyone leaves, of course.

When I was a kid, I lived in LA until age 7, when my parents moved to NC. They put me in the public school at age 7, in second grade. The teacher, realizing I was very advanced and working a few grade levels above my age, would have me teach lessons in class while she "put her head down" on her desk. I have one acute memory of sitting on a chair with students pulling chairs around me (the desks were non-functional), trying to teach the kids the lesson of the day, how to tell time. I was a white kid, new to town, in a class that was 75% black kids, who were of course assigned to that teacher because everyone knew she was terrible. I got thrown in that class because we moved mid-year. Anyway, it went about as well as you'd expect that to go -- by the end of the "lesson" it turned out the time was "time for you to sit" or something like that.

Which brings us to the next feature of these poorly performing states: they underfund their public schools because they don't want black kids to get good educations. This process has been extensively documented. Public school systems left to suffer, middle or upper class white kids go to private school, and nobody really cares about the quality of the schools.

To the extent that the schools systems in these areas are functional, it's because of the Department of Education.

Returning all control to the states will simply recreate the conditions that led to the abysmal public school systems in the southern states, and the result will be predictable.
 
superrific said:
Returning all control to the states will simply recreate the conditions that led to the abysmal public school systems in the southern states, and the result will be predictable.
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I have zero doubt that "turning the money over to NC" would end up pouring it into Charters, Catholic Schools, Baptist white kid schools etc
 
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