Trump / Musk (other than DOGE)

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nycfan said:
“… Vance said the option of sending U.S. troops to Ukraine if Moscow failed to negotiate in good faith remained “on the table,” striking a far tougher tone than did Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth, who on Wednesday suggested the U.S. wouldn’t commit forces.

… In an interview with The Wall Street Journal hours after Trump said he would start negotiating with Putin to end the war in Ukraine, Vance said: “I think there is a deal that is going to come out of this that’s going to shock a lot of people.”

… “The president is not going to go in this with blinders on,” Vance said. “He’s going to say, ‘Everything is on the table, let’s make a deal.’” …”

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nycfan said:

Vance tells Europe it needs to take lead on Ukraine’s future security​

The vice president said the NATO alliance needed to step up for Ukraine as the United States faces more challenges in East Asia.

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www.washingtonpost.com

“… Ahead of a Friday morning meeting with NATO Secretary General Mark Rutte, Vance said Washington would remain Europe’s ally, but that the continent needed to do more to improve its own military capabilities as the Trump administration reorients its attention toward dealing with China.

“NATO is a very important military alliance, of course, that we’re the most significant part of,” Vance said alongside Rutte. “But we want to make sure that NATO is actually built for the future, and we think a big part of that is ensuring that NATO does a little bit more burden-sharing in Europe, so the United States can focus on some of our challenges in East Asia.”

… Trump’s approach to the talks has been an energy boost to Putin, who has long sought to sit down with a U.S. leader to remake the post-Cold War security architecture and now appears to have a chance to do so, consigning Europe to a back-seat role in the conversation. Generations of U.S. leaders before Trump have said that Russia has neither the power nor the right to veto how Europe protects itself. Even Trump’s decision to speak to Putin before consulting with Zelensky was a victory for the Kremlin. …”
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Honestly, Ukraine would be better off with Europe taking the lead and cutting the US out of the picture.
 
nycfan said:




“5/ Yes, there are some mixed messages from Hegseth, Vance, Trump and GOP senators. But the overall change in direction is easily discernible - and of course only Trump’s voice and decisions truly matter. Did Americans vote for this change to this degree? I don’t know. But the shift will affect the world and Americans’ lives in measurable ways for many years to come.”
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“… The United States is rapidly being viewed as unreliable”
 
I’m sincerely glad that both of my grandfathers, one of which landed on Omaha Beach at 19 years old to fight fascism, and the other of which landed on Iwo Jima at 20 years old to fight imperialism, aren’t around to see the United States of America capitulate to both in front of the entire world. I’m probably naïve and stupid, both, but it’s really hard for me to wrap my minuscule brain around how we got to this point where the United States is begging to join an axis of evil. There is absolutely nothing whatsoever to be gained from partnering with Russia or with fascist out parties in Germany, but there is everything to lose.
 


Musk is a member of the U.S. government now, so a big difference, as a start.
 
nycfan said:


“… The United States is rapidly being viewed as unreliable”
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"I can tell you Jim it’s not sitting well here in free Tokyo and in free Seoul next-door and it’s generating more and more talk about both nations pursuing nuclear weapons programs"

I honestly think this is the biggest concern. Trump has been saying he's going to pull back from some of our military commitments for a very long time and it looks like it's happening. If we can reduce our defense spending at the same time we reduce our defense commitments, that's going to be great for American taxpayers. The model of funding Ukraine while decimating our greatest geopolitical enemy has been cheap in both blood and treasure and effective.

But if more Nations start seeking nuclear weapons, is that a great trade-off? Nuclear proliferation is pretty scary, even with so-called "responsible" countries. So far, we're the only country that has used them and mutually assured destruction has worked wonders. Will that be the case indefinitely? It's certainly a risk.
 
gtyellowjacket said:
"I can tell you Jim it’s not sitting well here in free Tokyo and in free Seoul next-door and it’s generating more and more talk about both nations pursuing nuclear weapons programs"

I honestly think this is the biggest concern. Trump has been saying he's going to pull back from some of our military commitments for a very long time and it looks like it's happening. If we can reduce our defense spending at the same time we reduce our defense commitments, that's going to be great for American taxpayers. The model of funding Ukraine while decimating our greatest geopolitical enemy has been cheap in both blood and treasure and effective.

But if more Nations start seeking nuclear weapons, is that a great trade-off? Nuclear proliferation is pretty scary, even with so-called "responsible" countries. So far, we're the only country that has used them and mutually assured destruction has worked wonders. Will that be the case indefinitely? It's certainly a risk.
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This speech Vance is giving in Europe is increasing that risk by the moment. He’s basically saying no country can count on us anymore unless it bends to the will of the far right, exemplified by MAGA.
 


“… Vance’s comments brought the event to a standstill.

…The speech focused largely on culture war issues and populism, with Vance accusing European governments and the European Union of being “commissars” more interested in stifling free speech than in providing security for their citizens.

He also attacked high levels of migration, touching on the same themes that animated Donald Trump’s return to power in the United States. He said he was praying for the victims of Thursday’s attack in Munich, when a migrant drove a car into a crowd, injuring 15.

“How many times must we suffer these appalling setbacks before we change course and take our civilization in a different direction?” Vance said. …”



 
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