Trump: "We will take over Gaza and move all Palestinians out"

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superrific said:
I think you might be confusing him with someone else. I had an argument with him and when I reassessed what happened there, I realized that I was being uncharitable toward him. The views I thought he had expressed, I actually didn't find much evidence of. What I thought he had said, he hadn't.

I think he would benefit from a new user name. I think this one is leading him to be smeared by association. I don't know. Maybe he's already changed his user name and is someone else and I don't know it.
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He's itsbo, and he's actually worlds more reasonable than he used to be. He still has huge blindspots as far as Israel and the police are concerned, but I believe he's growing as a person.
 
superrific said:
I don't think anyone here disagrees with you about any of those facts. The conclusion about "blaming Hamas" does not obviously follow from the above -- and to me it seems crazy to blame Hamas for the sheer destructiveness of the Israeli response -- but your statement now is that you blame Hamas. Fair, as an opinion.

Of course, the reason that Hamas launched the attack was because the status quo was unacceptable to them for many reasons. I'm never going to apologize for their choice of method -- I'm a Gandhi admirer after all -- but I think it's also callous to say "things would have continued as they were" as if that's an acceptable outcome.
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right.

you've got a husband (Israel) who is beating the shit out of his wife (Gaza/Palestinians) every night, and the wife's "friend" (Hamas) comes over one night and ends up punching the husband and bloodying his nose and then the next day the husband murders the wife.

THE FRIEND IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS!!! HOW COULD THE FRIEND DO THIS?!?! THIS WAS ALL ON THE FRIEND!!!! THAT POOR HUSBAND, HE HAD TO KILL HER!!!!
 
Healing said:
Yeah, it seems more likely than not terrorism is coming our way, likely state sponsored, at the mere suggestion of ethnically cleansing Gaza. When ttump retaliates it'll be overboard, sloppy, and result in a coalition of states fighting the US and blockading energy.
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Were you under the impression that terrorism was ever not coming out way?
 
superrific said:
I don't think anyone here disagrees with you about any of those facts. The conclusion about "blaming Hamas" does not obviously follow from the above -- and to me it seems crazy to blame Hamas for the sheer destructiveness of the Israeli response -- but your statement now is that you blame Hamas. Fair, as an opinion.

Of course, the reason that Hamas launched the attack was because the status quo was unacceptable to them for many reasons. I'm never going to apologize for their choice of method -- I'm a Gandhi admirer after all -- but I think it's also callous to say "things would have continued as they were" as if that's an acceptable outcome.
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The status quo may not have been a desirable outcome, but it would have been a much better outcome for Gaza than where we are now. I mean, last night the President of the United States was discussing using the military to forcibly remove everyone from Gaza. That plus the two years of intense warfare is essentially as bad as it gets for a Gaza resident.
 
yeah, the chronically abused wife who is still alive is better off than the chronically abused wife who was murdered.

and obviously lets keep protecting the abusive husband.
 
4thgenheel said:
yeah, the chronically abused wife who is still alive is better off than the chronically abused wife who was murdered.

and obviously lets keep protecting the abusive husband.
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Very simplistic view that completely ignores the atrocities committed by Hamas and PIJ.
 
ZZLPHeels said:
Very simplistic view that completely ignores the atrocities committed by Hamas and PIJ.
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its simplistic and clunky and the "friend" is also a violent dumbass POS who should've never gotten involved or been allowed to get involved, to keep with my analogy.

but your attempted absolution of the abusive husband in favor of mostly blaming the friend is absurd.
 
StrangePackage said:
He's itsbo, and he's actually worlds more reasonable than he used to be. He still has huge blindspots as far as Israel and the police are concerned, but I believe he's growing as a person.
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I agree he's grown as a person. I would disagree that he's gotten to be a good poster.

But that is a subjective opinion, I realize.
 
Comparing Israel’s response to 10/7 as equivalent to America’s response to Pearl Harbor was not on my bingo card today
 
ZZLPHeels said:
Good analogy, but I would argue that we need to be asking two questions.

Question 1: What caused the fire? It seems like an electrical issue caused the fire, like you pointed out. This is a typically straightforward answer that can usually be pinpointed to a single cause.

Question 2: What caused this fire to be so deadly? That's where everything else that you listed comes into play. A much more complex answer that goes back to an accumulation of decisions and mistakes that built on each other over a period of years.

If we're going to apply that logic to situation in the Middle East, then 10/7 would be the fire that caused everything afterwards up to this point. Everything else was simply existing in the background, just like the people living and hanging out at the Ghost Ship. Without that electrical fault, that fire doesn't start and those people don't die that day. 10/7 was the electrical fault that lit off the invasion of Gaza by Israel. Without 10/7, the other issues are still there, but the situation doesn't ignite in the way that it did.
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I'm sure someone has responded, but oh well.

If this is your understanding of the analogy you missed the point.

Just as the fire described wasn't simply caused by the electrical issue, fire needs a source of ignition (usually heat), oxygen, and fuel, it was caused by the culmination of the events leading up to the electrical issue creating an ignition point in an area where there were volatile fuels and oxygen available.

None of these things happen in a vacuum where the events prior play no role.
 
nycfan said:
Wait wait wait



Which is it? Rubio said it was a generous offer for the U.S. to clean up the Gaza Strip and provide temporary housing to Palestinians in the meantime … and Caroline Leavitt said this:







x.com

x.com x.com
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So, the plan is to come up with a really stupid plan, throw it out there, and hope that the neighboring countries come up with a better plan while laughing at your stupidity?
 
1moretimeagain said:
So much for all those DOGE savings.
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drump will figure out a way to funnel the money into his own pockets.

Probably already looking to set up trump construction in Gaza so they will be the only available company to rebuild the region.
 
Callatoroy said:
With respect to this we agree. Trump has the advantage of being off the wall so he has some cover. The other two being on different pages is him trying to walk back the crazy and her doing what she was told to say. Neither are good. My betting pool has those two moved to the top of the first one out.
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Man you confuse me.

Some post you seem perfectly reasonable, and by that I don't mean you simply agree.

Then in other post you are worse than HY and RR with the winning stuff.
 
superrific said:
I think you might be confusing him with someone else. I had an argument with him and when I reassessed what happened there, I realized that I was being uncharitable toward him. The views I thought he had expressed, I actually didn't find much evidence of. What I thought he had said, he hadn't.

I think he would benefit from a new user name. I think this one is leading him to be smeared by association. I don't know. Maybe he's already changed his user name and is someone else and I don't know it.
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Isn't this BoTime were talking about? Isn't ZZLPHeels his new name?
 
4thgenheel said:
its simplistic and clunky and the "friend" is also a violent dumbass POS who should've never gotten involved or been allowed to get involved, to keep with my analogy.

but your attempted absolution of the abusive husband in favor of mostly blaming the friend is absurd.
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I'm not trying to absolve the husband. No side is pure here. I'm simply stating that 10/7 was not only a horrific thing for Hamas to do, but it was a very, very stupid thing for them to do as it put Gaza in the predicament that it is currently in. It was like Hitler waging war on two fronts stupid. Yes, Israel has also done (and continues to do) horrific things, but international diplomacy is about taking smart, calculated risks. 10/7 was a stupid risk.

Let's try a different analogy. Let's say Israel is the leader of a drug cartel and they run things in your area. You are tired of seeing their product kill people and you can't get anywhere legally because they have bought off all of the politicians in your area. So you decide to kidnap and murder their kids. Let's say you even filmed a video of yourself doing it and livestreamed it so they know exactly who you are. Yeah, they are a bad guy but not only did you give up the moral high ground but you also completely fucked yourself and everyone that you know. And the people that may have been on your side earlier are going to sit this one out because they also know that you fucked up and kind of feel bad for the guy because as much of an asshole as he is, his kids didn't deserve to get murdered.
 
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