Trump47 Foreign Policy Catch-All | Vance in Munich

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Callatoroy said:
I’m saying world leaders are “respected or feared” such that you don’t have 2 allies invaded by enemies unless they don’t respect and fear that leadership and sense weakness. I don’t think the Biden / Harris team projected strength, do you? I also think China’s role as a world leader and influencer grew while ours shrunk.
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Personally I think Putin expected Biden to behave like Obama did in 2014. No way he expected Biden and the euros to support Ukraine as strongly as they did. And I think in now way did he imagine for the war in Ukraine to become a quagmire.
 
CRHeel94 said:
Personally I think Putin expected Biden to behave like Obama did in 2014. No way he expected Biden and the euros to support Ukraine as strongly as they did. And I think in now way did he imagine for the war in Ukraine to become a quagmire.
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I agree. Putin committed the most egregious error someone launching a war can commit. He overestimated his country’s abilities and underestimated his enemy’s. That is why he’s in the mess he’s in now.
 
Callatoroy said:
Wait, we were going to lead the world with Kamala as president? Are you saying you believe she is smart enough, experienced enough, respected enough, and tough enough to be the world’s leader? She would out smart and out maneuver Putin and Xi? Is that correct or did I put words in your mouth?
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Kamal was woefully unprepared foreign policy and would have struggled to project strength. However, I have little doubt she would have been able to put competent people in place in the crucial cabinet positions. And even with her shortcomings she would have been a better option than Trump.

Trump years for the days of isolationism. It's not just putting AmericaFirst...it should really be America Only. Everything is a win-lose transaction. He did more damage to NATO in his first term than the Russians could ever hope to do (that's why Putin never moved an inch). In this term we will see the end of NATO and the world will become a much more dangerous place.
 
CRHeel94 said:
Personally I think Putin expected Biden to behave like Obama did in 2014. No way he expected Biden and the euros to support Ukraine as strongly as they did. And I think in now way did he imagine for the war in Ukraine to become a quagmire.
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There was ample evidence he expected Ukraine to fold within weeks. IIRC, there were reports that many of the Russian officers brought full dress regalia with them in anticipation of a parade through Kyiv.
 
His whole strategy the last year or so was to run out the clock on Western democracies. The electorate in those countries was not going to support a perpetual war...even if its pennies on the dollar standing up to the Russians in Ukraine than elsewhere.

And while I'm bitching about things...the Germans going off nuclear was so incredibly stupid.
 
CRHeel94 said:
Kamal was woefully unprepared foreign policy and would have struggled to project strength.
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What's the basis for this claim? Compare Kamala's preparation in foreign policy to the following presidents prior to them taking office:

Trump
Obama
GWB
Clinton

A couple of them did pretty well on foreign policy. Bush 41 had extensive foreign policy experience. I can't remember whether Reagan did or not.
 
dukeman92 said:
And make no mistake. He's in a mess... and we're about to let him off the hook.
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That's what is so crazy about all this. By arming Ukraine we were helping to bleed the Russian military dry and hurting Putin without sacrificing anything ourselves, other than the money we were spending to supply Ukraine with weapons. For us it was a win-win situation. And now Trump is going to screw it all up because he's a Putin and dictator fanboy and wants to help him out. Again, it's crazy time in US foreign policy, even more so than it was in his first term. Kiss up to our enemies and rivals and piss off all of our allies to the maximum degree possible. And this time it will likely take years to fix the damage, if that will even be possible.
 
Mulberry Heel said:
That's what is so crazy about all this. By arming Ukraine we were helping to bleed the Russian military dry and hurting Putin without sacrificing anything ourselves, other than the money we were spending to supply Ukraine with weapons. For us it was a win-win situation. And now Trump is going to screw it all up because he's a Putin and dictator fanboy and wants to help him out. Again, it's crazy time in US foreign policy, even more so than it was in his first term. Kiss up to our enemies and rivals and piss off all of our allies to the maximum degree possible. And this time it will likely take years to fix the damage, if that will even be possible.
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There won't be anything left of us in four years.
 
BlooVooDoo said:
How bad does a deal have to be for Ukraine for you to think it qualifies as being thrown under the bus?
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How good does it have to be for you to say ukraine wasn't thrown under the bus? Pete was right when he said its a non starter to think russia is going to give back land it holds now. That was never going to be agreed to by putin so that can't be part of any analysis of a peace deal. Likewise with ukraine joining NATO.
ukraine isn't in a position of leverage. Zelensky wants assurances of security against future invasions. Short of NATO i'm not sure what that looks like. Maybe arms deals with the US in return for access to mineral rights. Giving the US favorable rebuilding terms to greatly increase US investment that putin might think twice about attacking. I think ukraine gets the short end of the stick but that was always going to be the case. Russia has more time than ukraine does. Even if the US greatly increased its support, it wouldn't be enough to force putin to slink back to russia. So it isn't accurate to say ukraine got thrown under the bus if boundaries are redrawn an no nato admission.
 
Mulberry Heel said:
That's what is so crazy about all this. By arming Ukraine we were helping to bleed the Russian military dry and hurting Putin without sacrificing anything ourselves, other than the money we were spending to supply Ukraine with weapons. For us it was a win-win situation. And now Trump is going to screw it all up because he's a Putin and dictator fanboy and wants to help him out. Again, it's crazy time in US foreign policy, even more so than it was in his first term. Kiss up to our enemies and rivals and piss off all of our allies to the maximum degree possible. And this time it will likely take years to fix the damage, if that will even be possible.
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There is something our trumpers need to address for us. Trump is making it crystal clear that America under him can’t be trusted. Trust is a hard thing to get. It is easy to lose. It is almost impossible to regain. We have been the leader of the free world for 80 years now. But now, none of our allies will ever be able to trust us again. They will not look to us for leadership. We are threatening our nearest allies and giving assurances to our enemies. WTF trumpers? Your man is destroying in a few short weeks what it took our presidents from FDR to Biden 80 years to build. Unfucking believable.
 
superrific said:
What's the basis for this claim? Compare Kamala's preparation in foreign policy to the following presidents prior to them taking office:

Trump
Obama
GWB
Clinton

A couple of them did pretty well on foreign policy. Bush 41 had extensive foreign policy experience. I can't remember whether Reagan did or not.
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Reagan had ZERO. Kinda makes your point I would think.
 
Patb78 said:
There is something our trumpers need to address for us. Trump is making it crystal clear that America under him can’t be trusted. Trust is a hard thing to get. It is easy to lose. It is almost impossible to regain. We have been the leader of the free world for 80 years now. But now, none of our allies will ever be able to trust us again. They will not look to us for leadership. We are threatening our nearest allies and giving assurances to our enemies. WTF trumpers? Your man is destroying in a few short weeks what it took our presidents from FDR to Biden 80 years to build. Unfucking believable.
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To dovetails your Trumpers ask: I've always thought American engagement in the world has tremendous economic benefits for us. At least that was the argument Conservative Republicans used to argue. They need to explain how our pulling back is not going to hurt our economy?
 
Milk and Cookies said:
Consumption growth that outpaced peers (was worst among peers under Trump 1.0)
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Strong labor force participation (and big relative improvement from Trump 1.0)
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Impressive relative inflation reduction (after Trump 1.0 had us leading the pack by the end of his term)
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Outstanding attraction of capital investment
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great poast.
 




Vance goes to Europe and rumors on European leaders and governments, Rubio goes to Israel and fully embraces Bibi:



“… we have a common strategy … including when the gates of hell will be opened, as surely they will if all our hostages are not released …”

I guess some cover for Trump’s imprudent noon Saturday deadline …
 
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