UNC ONLY BASKETBALL 2024-25 SEASON

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Icky Mettle said:
I think part of us not having many 1st rounders lately is based on who we’ve recruited lately. In the previous 3 seasons (high school classes of 2021-2023), we haven’t recruited anyone who was considered a strong NBA prospect. Cadeau was the only 5-star during that time, but with his reclassification, size, and playing style (pass first; not a great shooter), I don’t think it was widely expected that he would be a first round pick after his freshman year.

in 2021, we had Day’ron Sharpe who was a OAD first rounder. In 2020, we had Cole Anthony who was a OAD first rounder. In 2019, we had Coby White and Nas Little, who were OAD first rounders, and Cam Johnson, who was a first rounder.

Of course 2021 and before, guys were playing under Roy. Hubert didn’t inherit or land guys who were expected to be first rounders when they came out of high school, with the exception Caleb Love (who he inherited from Roy). Armando and RJ were-5 stars, but Armando is an old school big that is no longer a high priority among NBA teams and RJ is too small to be a highly desirable NBA prospect. Drake and Ian will be the first real test (maybe Cadeau).
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I’m happy to not have a bunch of OADs every year.
 
A lot of it is from Roy, too, tbh. We haven't had an NBA All-Star since Vince Carter in 2007 (and the only one Roy ever coached was Paul Pierce, pretty sure). As great as he was, we held on to talent for various reasons (underage drinking on mopeds, NBA lockouts, McAdoo for some reason, Hansbrough would have been a 1st rounder after year 1, etc...). I mean, I'm not saying I'd trade the run we went on from '05 to '09 for better recruiting today or anything. Just trying to understand and explain what's going on here.

There's just a 20-year track record of UNC not producing NBA stars. At the end of the day, negative recruiting is effective recruiting, and we need to remove that arrow from opposing coaches' quivers.

Ian and Drake to the moon, IOW.
 
Not surprised by the outcome (Alabama is very good) but by how poor of showing it was

A home game coming off b2b losses and the whole team plays that poorly? We have officially entered disappointment territory

Defense hasn’t been close to where it needs to be and the offense looks awful for long stretches. Lack of improvement through 8 games is a major red flag
 
Bigs23 said:
Which is often the simple difference between winning and losing.

UNC basketball has not fallen off the map like some of you like to believe.
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And there are better ways to get better shots that have a better chance of going in than taking contested threes and driving the lane only to get blocked.
 
UNCRx85 said:
A lot of it is from Roy, too, tbh. We haven't had an NBA All-Star since Vince Carter in 2007 (and the only one Roy ever coached was Paul Pierce, pretty sure). As great as he was, we held on to talent for various reasons (underage drinking on mopeds, NBA lockouts, McAdoo for some reason, Hansbrough would have been a 1st rounder after year 1, etc...). I mean, I'm not saying I'd trade the run we went on from '05 to '09 for better recruiting today or anything. Just trying to understand and explain what's going on here.

There's just a 20-year track record of UNC not producing NBA stars. At the end of the day, negative recruiting is effective recruiting, and we need to remove that arrow from opposing coaches' quivers.

Ian and Drake to the moon, IOW.
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Colleges and college coaches don’t make NBA talent.
 
UNCRx85 said:
A lot of it is from Roy, too, tbh. We haven't had an NBA All-Star since Vince Carter in 2007 (and the only one Roy ever coached was Paul Pierce, pretty sure). As great as he was, we held on to talent for various reasons (underage drinking on mopeds, NBA lockouts, McAdoo for some reason, Hansbrough would have been a 1st rounder after year 1, etc...). I mean, I'm not saying I'd trade the run we went on from '05 to '09 for better recruiting today or anything. Just trying to understand and explain what's going on here.

There's just a 20-year track record of UNC not producing NBA stars. At the end of the day, negative recruiting is effective recruiting, and we need to remove that arrow from opposing coaches' quivers.

Ian and Drake to the moon, IOW.
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Antawn Jamison and Rasheed Wallace were NBA All-Stars in 2008, but your point stands.
 
Bigs23 said:
Colleges and college coaches don’t make NBA talent.
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I generally agree with this, but that’s not the way many recruits and their families view the situation. But, yeah, let’s face it, in the era where elite talent is spending only one year in college, their NBA success (or lack thereof) has absolutely nothing to do with college coaching.
 
Icky Mettle said:
Antawn Jamison and Rasheed Wallace were NBA All-Stars in 2008, but your point stands.
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For an even more alarming way of framing it - an NBA All-Star hasn't played for North Carolina since 1998.

Maybe even better - UNC basketball has had an NFL HOF'er more recently than it has an NBA All-Star.
 
Peppers49 said:
It’s been a bit of an up and down start for Hubert. I highly doubt he would get fired after this season barring like a single digit win total or something unexpected off the court. Unfortunately, I do think that if the team continues to struggle and either misses the tournament entirely or sneaks in as a bubble team and exits during the first weekend, he will have serious job pressure going into next season.

There are a few things working against the perception of Hubert that aren’t really in his control:
  1. The program wasn’t exactly in great shape when he took it over. This is not a criticism of Roy, but when fans start citing all of the stats about how this 5 season stretch is one of the worst in our history because of X amount of wins or whatever, the 20 and 21 seasons account for a lot of that, and I think fans subconsciously lump that stretch in with the Hubert era, even though he obviously wasn’t the coach yet.
  2. 2023 preseason #1 debacle. That season felt so much worse than it actually was because of the dubious distinction of being the only preseason #1 team to miss the tournament constantly getting thrown in our faces. Had we been like preseason #18 and had the same exact season, I think it would have been much easier for us to give a mulligan to a second year coach still figuring things out.
  3. NIL. Being the HC for one of the 2 revenue sports is a prominent position where lobbying the admins/fans is part of the job description, so I do think Hubert is partly culpable here for not being more vocal about this sooner. At the end of the day though it’s more of a wholistic UNC problem. Seems like Hubert pulled out all of the stops trying to get a big man for this season and just got outbid.
Things working against Hubert that are his responsibility:
  1. Recruiting and roster building. To his credit, I think Hubert has done a solid job with the transfer portal over the last few years. While it’s nice when transfers like Manek, Ingram, and Ryan are the engines of your team and help lead you to successful seasons, it’s ultimately unsustainable if you're trying to catch lighting in a bottle out of the portal every season as opposed to building the nucleus of the team via HS recruits that develop in your system over multiple years. The fact that he’s in year 4 and he doesn’t have a better roster core than this is worrying. If you start to project out to next year it gets even more grim. This could very well be the thing that ultimately does him in.
  2. Coaching and scheme. Even if you chalk up the poor roster construction to NIL or whatever, we have more than enough talent on the roster to look better than we have this season. Way too many stretches during both this year and the previous 3 years where the team comes out with barely any energy and no defense while the guards dribble around the perimeter and take turns bricking jumpers. That’s all coaching.
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That's a good post, and I agree with nearly all of it. I also don't think he'll be fired at the end of the season if they don't make the NCAA Tournament or bow out early and have a lot of losses, that wasn't what I was trying to say. I still support him and given the rapidly changing nature of college sports I'm not sure that anyone else would have navigated this any better. Having said that, if we do fail make the NCAA tourney then I do think he will start to feel some real pressure moving into next year, no question. Your post did a good job, I thought, of showing how justified the complaints against him will be if that turns out to be the case. I like him and certainly hope he turns it around.
 
UNCRx85 said:
Which is why, when you have it, you better showcase it so you can get more of it in the future.
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Icky Mettle said:
I generally agree with this, but that’s not the way many recruits and their families view the situation. But, yeah, let’s face it, in the era where elite talent is spending only one year in college, their NBA success (or lack thereof) has absolutely nothing to do with college coaching.
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And OAD talent doesn’t guarantee success either.
 
Turd Ferguson said:
A former player seems to be saying the same things I have been saying.

247sports.com

Dewey's Takeaways: UNC's 'Out-Classed' Roster; Effort Issues; RJ Davis' Struggles After Alabama Loss

What's plaguing UNC after its third straight loss? Inside Carolina analyst and former Tar Heel guard Dewey Burke weighs in.
247sports.com 247sports.com
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The coaching staff was counting on improvement from our JWs and that just hasn't happened. Maybe you can fault the decision to rely on them (though it seemed that we did go after centers, we just didn't get them for various reasons), but I don't see how their lack of development can be put on the staff.

It's hard to be successful in college when you miss whole seasons in HS. Development time at that age is so critical. Wasn't JW out for a really long time in HS? I don't remember the full story if I knew it. And the other JW just has a poor BBIQ and an inconsistent motor and there's just not a lot a coaching staff can do with a guy like that.
 
UNCRx85 said:
For an even more alarming way of framing it - an NBA All-Star hasn't played for North Carolina since 1998.

Maybe even better - UNC basketball has had an NFL HOF'er more recently than it has an NBA All-Star.
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Definitely crazy considering between 1969 and 2008, there were only three NBA All-Star teams that did not have Tar Heels on them (1983, 1994, and 1995). Nineteen of those All-Star teams had at least two Tar Heels. Eight of them had three. Those Tar Heel all-stars consisted of twelve different players.

Between the 1962-63 and the 1997-98 college basketball seasons, there were only twelve UNC basketball squads thatdid not have an eventual NBA All-Star (1966, 1967, 1971, 1978, 1979, 1987, 1988, 1989, 1990, 1991, 1992, 1993).
 
superrific said:
The coaching staff was counting on improvement from our JWs and that just hasn't happened. Maybe you can fault the decision to rely on them (though it seemed that we did go after centers, we just didn't get them for various reasons), but I don't see how their lack of development can be put on the staff.

It's hard to be successful in college when you miss whole seasons in HS. Development time at that age is so critical. Wasn't JW out for a really long time in HS? I don't remember the full story if I knew it. And the other JW just has a poor BBIQ and an inconsistent motor and there's just not a lot a coaching staff can do with a guy like that.
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I think Washington missed playing his senior year of high school. Withers just makes bad decisions.
 
Heelsandeers said:
Not surprised by the outcome (Alabama is very good) but by how poor of showing it was

A home game coming off b2b losses and the whole team plays that poorly? We have officially entered disappointment territory

Defense hasn’t been close to where it needs to be and the offense looks awful for long stretches. Lack of improvement through 8 games is a major red flag
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Yes, this is where I'm at. For all intents and purposes, UNC came into this game thinking of it as a must win. To have that performance, with that mindset, is very disappointing.
 
Icky Mettle said:
Definitely crazy considering between 1969 and 2008, there were only three NBA All-Star teams that did not have Tar Heels on them (1983, 1994, and 1995). Nineteen of those All-Star teams had at least two Tar Heels. Eight of them had three. Those Tar Heel all-stars consisted of twelve different players.

Between the 1962-63 and the 1997-98 college basketball seasons, there were only twelve UNC basketball squads that did not have an eventual NBA All-Star (1966, 1967, 1971, 1978, 1979, 1987, 1988, 1989, 1990, 1991, 1992, 1993).
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I don't remember the exact stat, but there was a UNC guy involved in every NBA finals from like 1980 to the mid 2000s. Maybe Boston in 08 was the first to have no UNC influence since the 70s?

Look at that talent dip in the late 80s and early 90s. Interesting. In fairness, Rick Fox and Kenny Smith won 5 rings between them as major contributors (starters, I think), so that should count for something. Pete Chilcutt also won an NBA championship with that Rockets team, as part of the "improbable I-40" tandem of Pete Chilcutt and Chucky Brown, who one would not have anticipated to play starter minutes on a championship team. It's easier, I guess, playing next to Hakeem.
 
From Greg Barnes, regarding NIL: @GrantHughes referenced last night that 18 of the top-20 centers in the 2025 class are committed and the two uncommitted don't seem to be in communication with UNC. Some of those players are committed to Virginia Tech, NC State, Notre Dame and Miami. Coaches have different preferences in the players they recruit, but UNC didn't sign a top-20 center in the 2024 class, either. I think we need to avoid blanket blame of NIL when discussing roster management. No doubt it's a factor in certain recruitments, but it's also an easy scapegoat.
 
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