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United Healthcare CEO shot and killed

NCK9 said:
Some are suggesting that he might have been using low velocity bullets (less power = less noise) along with the suppressor. Hence the gun jamming and him having to cycle the weapon after each shot. That said, I'd think that ANY gunshot in a cavernous area like NYC would be loud and echo.
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My experience with suppressors is limited to Y guides camp but there is a noticeable difference. It's not the ping like in the movies but I doubt I would recognize it as a gunshot. I think it was less sound than a book falling on the floor.
 
gtyellowjacket said:
My experience with suppressors is limited to Y guides camp but there is a noticeable difference. It's not the ping like in the movies but I doubt I would recognize it as a gunshot. I think it was less sound than a book falling on the floor.
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I've shot guns with suppressors and this is accurate. It isn't silent but it makes a difference. It's kind of a thumping sound versus a loud bang.
 
Enigma94 said:
I've shot guns with suppressors and this is accurate. It isn't silent but it makes a difference. It's kind of a thumping sound versus a loud bang.
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Right. It's still a hell of a risk to take. I mean, the thumping might attract a couple of eyeballs, which would then see the guy shooting.
 
Some updates from local news coverage:
  • He got to the location early and went to a Starbucks a block away and then waited
  • He went to the spot and waited about 5 mins near the curb just outside the Hilton entrance on 54th as several pedestrians walked by without incident
  • The gun jammed after one of the first couple shots and he paused to clear the jam
  • After the shooting he fled to 55th and undocked a Citibike, and rode it straight up 6th into Central Park
  • They have video of him exiting the park a few minutes later on the Upper West Side (which also means they have a lot more surveillance footage after that)
  • They found a mobile phone near the scene that they suspect he dumped
So that guy’s tweet about him docking the bike at Madison/82nd seems inaccurate.

But either way, I would find it hard to believe it’s too long before they catch him.
 
duluoz said:
Some updates from local news coverage:
  • He got to the location early and went to a Starbucks a block away and then waited
  • He went to the spot and waited about 5 mins near the curb just outside the Hilton entrance on 54th as several pedestrians walked by without incident
  • The gun jammed after one of the first couple shots and he paused to clear the jam
  • After the shooting he fled to 55th and undocked a Citibike, and rode it straight up 6th into Central Park
  • They have video of him exiting the park a few minutes later on the Upper West Side (which also means they have a lot more surveillance footage after that)
  • They found a mobile phone near the scene that they suspect he dumped
So that guy’s tweet about him docking the bike at Madison/82nd seems inaccurate.

But either way, I would find it hard to believe it’s too long before they catch him.
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Most likely a disgruntled customer rather than a professional hitman for hire. Too much of an electronic footprint between cameras, phone, bike (linked to credit card), etc.
 
CallMeTyler said:
www.propublica.org

UnitedHealthcare Tried to Deny Coverage to a Chronically Ill Patient. He Fought Back, Exposing the Insurer’s Inner Workings.

After a college student finally found a treatment that worked, the insurance giant decided it wouldn’t pay for the costly drugs. His fight to get coverage exposed the insurer’s hidden procedures for rejecting claims.
www.propublica.org www.propublica.org

More than 200 million Americans are covered by private health insurance. But data from state and federal regulators shows that insurers reject about 1 in 7 claims for treatment. Many people, faced with fighting insurance companies, simply give up: One study found that Americans file formal appeals on only 0.1% of claims denied by insurers under the Affordable Care Act.

UnitedHealth Group annual gross profit for 2023 was $90.958B, a 14.24% increase. UnitedHealth Group annual gross profit for 2022 was $79.617B, a 14.31% increase from 2021. UnitedHealth Group annual gross profit for 2021 was $69.652B, a 3.96% increase from 2020.

Do you suspect this particular CEO had a vested interest in serving those patients with needed care or denying coverage in order to meet EPS targets and shareholder value?

Thoughts and prayers?
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Listen, I don't exactly want to defend a health insurance company...but the resident insurance employee (non-health division) maybe a bit of context is appropriate. Gross profit is not really an accurate reflection of actual profit the way that operating revenue, EBIDTA and net profit are. United's revenue number for 2023 was $371b, operating revenue was $32b, EBIDTA $36b and net income $22b. The real profit number is the $22b net profit, about a 6% profit ratio. UHC's revenue, gross profit, operating revenue, EBIDTA all increased at around the same rate (14% give or take) from 22 to 23 while the net income increased slightly slower (11%).

Given that UHC's net profit growth roughly lines up with the revenue growth, the increase is mostly coming from market share growth rather than from rate growth or from a hard market. In insurance terms, a hard market is when we can increase premium rates faster and a soft market is where it is more difficult to increase rates in comparison to actual claim experience. I work in liability insurance, so we have a longer tail (time from bringing in revenue to spending it), health insurance is a short tail market segment. UHC's revenue and expenses are basically coming in during the same 12 month period which means there is almost no opportunity for them to invest that revenue to offset some of the claim expenses. Liability insurers can often operate at a loss and use investment income to make up the difference. In short, if we are making 15% on market investments, there is more flexibility on premium revenue matching up with claim experience.

For comparison, Apple 2023 has a very similar top line revenue number ($391b) but had operating revenue of $123b, EBIDTA $134b and net income $94b for a 24% profit ratio. Profit ratios for the rest of the Fortune Top 10: Walmart's 2%, Amazon 5%, ExxonMobile 10%, CVS 2%, Berkshire 26%, Google 24%, McKesson 1%; Chevron 10%. That's three retailers with lower ratios; 2 gas companies roughly the same 10%, two tech companies at 24%, a wholesale drug supplier with very low profit ratio (McKesson) and 2 insurance companies (Berkshire's core business is liability insurance not Buffet's investing) with vastly different ratios, UHC being the lesser. Berkshire's ratio however will be much more volatile, sometimes negative, while UHC will typically be more steady.

I agree with the characterization that UHC is a middleman who is taking a 6% cut. But it is not nearly as large of a cut as most believe. I also agree that universal health insurance/Medicare would benefit the US. But someone has to administer it and there are about a million people working in the health insurance industry. Universal Medicare means you either put them on the Federal payroll or you farm it out to the insurance industry. There is more fat in the private side but not as much as most believe.
 
NCK9 said:
Most likely a disgruntled customer rather than a professional hitman for hire. Too much of an electronic footprint between cameras, phone, bike (linked to credit card), etc.
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The citbike is bad info. He obviously wasn't going to use a credit card anywhere.
 
superrific said:
1. Has the shooter been identified and/or located?
2. He was shooting the guy while cars were driving by, literally. Nobody stopped. Are we back to Kitty Genovese? I suppose that they could have called 911 when they were still driving. I don't think I would fault anyone for not trying to intervene, but damn. Imagine seeing that on your way home from the theater.
3. If #1 is yes, do we have a good idea as to motive? Like, disgruntled patient, mafia hit, etc.
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It was 6:44 AM. Anyone returning home from the theater had had quite the long night out.

Two SUV’s (parallel parked) likely obscured the shooter and the victim from the whopping TWO vehicles that drove by - the victim was on the ground before the first vehicle pulled adjacent to the shooting.

Someone called 911 by 6:46 AM to report the shooting.

How does this incident compare to Kitty Genovese?
 
Zoo_View said:
It was 6:44 AM. Anyone returning home from the theater had had quite the long night out.

Two SUV’s (parallel parked) likely obscured the shooter and the victim from the whopping TWO vehicles that drove by - the victim was on the ground before the first vehicle pulled adjacent to the shooting.

Someone called 911 by 6:46 AM to report the shooting.

How does this incident compare to Kitty Genovese?
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1. I thought it happened last night. Actors often get home at 6:00 AM but yes, theater-goers not so much.
2. It doesn't compare to Kitty Genovese. I only used that as a rhetorical question, and then added that it wasn't comparable because people could have been calling 911 from their cars and indeed it appears 911 was promptly called.
3. Even at 6:44 AM, there are usually pedestrians, even in midtown. I mean, starbucks was open, right?

It just seems to me like this guy didn't really give a fuck about being caught. Either that, or he had some inside info about how he wouldn't be.
 
Calheel said:
To clarify some things, the person shot today is the head of United Healthcare, which is a division of United Health Group. It is the CEO of United Health Group that earns $23.5 million, not the lower-level employee killed today.
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Bet that one is riding in a bulletproof auto tomorrow! As corporatocracy settles in more violence is likely inevitable.
 
superrific said:
1. I thought it happened last night. Actors often get home at 6:00 AM but yes, theater-goers not so much.
2. It doesn't compare to Kitty Genovese. I only used that as a rhetorical question, and then added that it wasn't comparable because people could have been calling 911 from their cars and indeed it appears 911 was promptly called.
3. Even at 6:44 AM, there are usually pedestrians, even in midtown. I mean, starbucks was open, right?

It just seems to me like this guy didn't really give a fuck about being caught. Either that, or he had some inside info about how he wouldn't be.
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It was very fast. 10 seconds and it was over. Very little chance of being stopped on the street when you move that efficiently.

Reminds me of the Russian assassins. Putin has used hits exactly like this one.
 
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