Walz — Comer Opens Congressional Investigation of Walz trips to China

Paine said:
To say that criticism of Shapiro is anti-Semitic just highlights the issue even more.

Anti-semitism is not anti-Zionism.

He has compared protestors of genocide in Gaza to the KKK and said Palestinians are not capable of peace.

Not to mention the school voucher issues and the Me Too coverup.

There are better options than Shapiro, and that’s why people are speaking out against him. Not because he’s Jewish.
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I believe he was comparing the protesters who vandalize property, burn American flags, etc. to the KKK. I am almost certain he was not comparing people who are just generally pro-Palestinian to the KKK.


I think there are vice presidential candidate options that are just as good as Shapiro, but from an electoral standpoint, I am almost certain there are no vice presidential candidate options that are *better*. Having Shapiro on the ticket means that there is a very, very high likelihood of Pennsylvania going for Harris, and if Pennsylvania goes for Harris, there is a very, very high likelihood that she wins the whole election. In an election that is going to be as close and as much of a tossup as this one looks to be, I just think you have to squeeze out every drop of possible advantage that you can.
 
Shades of 2016. This Shapiro smear campaign from a small portion of the far left is starting to cause damage to Harris IMO. She needs to pick Shapiro quickly and get this going. Or pick someone else and hope Trump continues to self-implode. Hopefully, the addition of David Plouffe will get this settled very soon.
Shapiro has been far harsher on Netanyahu than Biden has. The correct policy is to condemn Hamas, condemn Netanyahu and seek a Palestiinian state in WB and Gaza once the war is over.. Hamas soldiers are not fr4eedome-fighters and Netanyahu is not an advocate for peace (2-state solution).
Assuming VP Harris and Shapiro are in sync on the above, he is the pick. From what I have read, Republicans think Shapiro is on the verge of closing off the Philly suburbs for R candidates--he has been that impactful as AG and Gov.
 
Paine said:
I just don’t see any evidence that Shapiro will deliver Pennsylvania for Harris. I think she is well set up to compete and win there without him. I don’t want to rehash things I’ve already said on this thread, but Harris and Shapiro bring similar skills to the table, so I’d prefer Walz or Beshear.
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I hear ya. I think yours is a perfectly valid and entirely respectable viewpoint. And I actually agree that I believe that Harris is set up well to be able to win in Pennsylvania even without Shapiro on the ticket. Like I’ve said, I’m going to be thrilled with any of whomever she picks between Shapiro, Walz, Kelly, or Beshear. I’m just hopeful that the more leftward flank of the party doesn’t have a temper tantrum if and when she chooses Shapiro.
 
heelslegup said:
Shades of 2016. This Shapiro smear campaign from a small portion of the far left is starting to cause damage to Harris IMO. She needs to pick Shapiro quickly and get this going. Or pick someone else and hope Trump continues to self-implode. Hopefully, the addition of David Plouffe will get this settled very soon.
Shapiro has been far harsher on Netanyahu than Biden has. The correct policy is to condemn Hamas, condemn Netanyahu and seek a Palestiinian state in WB and Gaza once the war is over.. Hamas soldiers are not fr4eedome-fighters and Netanyahu is not an advocate for peace (2-state solution).
Assuming VP Harris and Shapiro are in sync on the above, he is the pick. From what I have read, Republicans think Shapiro is on the verge of closing off the Philly suburbs for R candidates--he has been that impactful as AG and Gov.
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I agree. From my perspective as a moderate-to-slightly conservative, it has always felt to me like the far left is not happy unless they are unhappy.
 
uncjhodges said:
Pretty tired of Fettermans shit
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Yeah what is his angle anymore other than to be the next Sinema/Manchin who gums up the works on everything.

If he doesn’t like Shapiro it’s probably personal - highly doubt it’s anti Semitism because Fetterman is the most pro Israel democratic senator.
 
CFordUNC said:
I agree. From my perspective as a moderate-to-slightly conservative, it has always felt to me like the far left is not happy unless they are unhappy.
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Yeah, I get pretty annoyed when the part of the left that already, by definition, makes it harder for Dems to win a national election goes out of its way to make it even harder than it has to be. The switch to Kamala has delivered Dems from the brink of annihilation this fall. If all parts of the left can’t get behind her now, after staring into the abyss for several months, they’ve compromised their credibility IMO.
 
The Dems have many great VP candidates and I will enthusiastially support whomever VP Harris selects. I believe people underestimating how popular Trump is in PA (and somewhat in WI and MI). I think Shapiro helps. esp in PA but also in the other two as a nice tag team with KH.
KH can win without Shapiro: I simply feel that selecting him will allow KH to focus a lot more on other states aned not have to camp out in PA.
If not Shapiro, I think KH should go for Beshear or possibly Pritzker.
 
While I wouldn’t be necessarily upset with any of the options, I just keep coming back to Walz.

I feel like his story would connect with a lot of people. School teacher, military service, popular Governor. Although I’m not sure “baggage” is the right term, he doesn’t have the negatives associated with Shapiro or Kelly.
 
Paine said:
I don’t think Walz or Beshear would actively upset segments of the base in the way Shapiro or even Kelly might.
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I posted earlier I'm not sure the boost Shapiro might provide in PA offsets the liability he presents in Michigan. I believe Beshear or Walz have less potential to dampen enthusiasm of the Harris ticket among elements of the Democratic coalition than Shapiro or Kelly. Do no harm!

And I use the term "coalition" purposefully. I'm not sure there is a Democratic "base," at least the way we use the term to describe the Republican "base." The foundation of the Democratic Party is an unwieldy coalition of various interest groups who are unified mostly around defeating the kleptocracy/kakistocracy that the GOP has come to represent. And that is important. Harris can't "offend" any of those interest groups in the quest to take down Trump. Democratic infighting has to be doused quickly, or the alternative is a second Trump administration. And yes, that is worse than what is perceived as going "back to failed politics and policies from a decade ago." Trump is far worse.
 
RockyMtnHoo said:
While I wouldn’t be necessarily upset with any of the options, I just keep coming back to Walz.

I feel like his story would connect with a lot of people. School teacher, military service, popular Governor. Although I’m not sure “baggage” is the right term, he doesn’t have the negatives associated with Shapiro or Kelly.
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Agreed and I’m firmly in the Walz camp now too…
 
My bias when viewing the VP candidates is as a moderate-to-liberal Democrat living in Virginia. If all those candidates were running for VA governor, I think Beshear would be the easy choice--he would destroy any R in VA, revive them from the dead and then wipe them out again...without braking a sweat,
Shapiro probably would as well, though not as much. I think Walz would be 60/40 in Virginia depending on the R candidate.
For the VP race, I am
1) Shapiro (owing to PA and because I believe he would give KH some cover to be a bit more pro-Palestinian and anti-Netanyahu if she wanted. I also think he is the most "talented" of the bunch
2) Beshear: to appeal to indie and some conservative voters. Would be a nice complement to Harris, Also would be fantastic with young Democrats and IMO help in GA, and possibly NC and FL.

I don't believe the other candidates add anything to the ticket, though that should not be an automatic disqualifier. They don't harm the ticket either to any significant degree. Ultimately people are voting for Pres, not VP.
 
HeelingAg said:
Shapiro is quick and nimble on the stump and presumably would mean the Harris campaign has to spend less time in PA. GREAT advantages. On the flip side, he will get tarred FROM THE LEFT with school vouchers, protesters = KKK (I know context makes it ridiculous, but still), and the sexual harassment scandal. Harris already has her own baggage with the left.
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And you didn't even mention the alienation of the substantial Middle Eastern voting block in Michigan.
 
HeelingAg said:
Same. He has poor name recognition, which is about the only thing I know to criticism, other than he does look like an old white guy.

Shapiro is quick and nimble on the stump and presumably would mean the Harris campaign has to spend less time in PA. GREAT advantages. On the flip side, he will get tarred FROM THE LEFT with school vouchers, protesters = KKK (I know context makes it ridiculous, but still), and the sexual harassment scandal. Harris already has her own baggage with the left.
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I don’t read a lot from this publication but there are some troubling features about Shapiro. The veepstakes, to me, are more about “do no harm” than thinking that the pick will actively bring in voters. Walz brings some folksy charm and a practical attitude, and he has very little baggage.

newrepublic.com

The One Vice Presidential Pick Who Could Ruin Democratic Unity

Pennsylvania Governor Josh Shapiro is a leading candidate to be Kamala Harris’s running mate. Selecting him would fracture the party.
newrepublic.com newrepublic.com
 
Paine said:
To say that criticism of Shapiro is anti-Semitic just highlights the issue even more.

Anti-semitism is not anti-Zionism.

He has compared protestors of genocide in Gaza to the KKK and said Palestinians are not capable of peace.

Not to mention the school voucher issues and the Me Too coverup.

There are better options than Shapiro, and that’s why people are speaking out against him. Not because he’s Jewish.

If Joe Scarborough is going to bat this hard for Shapiro, that reaffirms my belief that it should not be him.
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To be fair, his ire towards protesters was directed towards the pro-Hamas elements of the protests that were present (albeit in small numbers) at many of these protests. I don’t think it is unfair to equate supporters of Hamas to supporters of the KKK. Also, the comment about Palestinians not being capable of peace was made 30 years ago, when he was 20. Do you still share all of the same political positions now that you had when you were 20?
 
Paine said:
Fetterman has been one of the most annoying pols in Congress this session. I had high hopes for him before his election, but he quickly revealed himself to be just as craven as the rest.

Not sure what his angle is at this point re: Shapiro other than he probably genuinely dislikes him based on personal history.

I don’t think Fetterman is trying to position himself for a presidential run anytime soon lol.
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It’s the Western PA vs. Eastern PA rivalry.
 
Paine said:
Fair points, but I think the fact that we’re arguing about it means Shapiro will be a distraction.
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Couldn’t that apply to any candidate? I doubt you will find a single person on earth that is immune to any criticism whatsoever. If criticism is invalid, it should be called out as such.
 
Walz is by far the the most genuine and likeable candidate, I just go back to Shapiro can or will help in PA.


And yes Fetterman and others need to shut their pie holes. Keep the eyes on the prize lefties
 
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