What did Trump tap into?

[TarSpiel]

I am merely pointing out that Democrats have a perception issue with many voters that COULD vote Democratic are finding disqualifying.

About 10 times out of 10, this point of view boils down to "If the democrats would move further right, fewer people would find them disqualifying"

Right wing messaging works, and has been working for decades. Democrats should never kowtow to the people on whom it works...they'll keep moving the goalposts.

It's like ZM on here, "Get rid of both MAGA and the far left!" Far left? You mean Bernie? Or who? There is no significant "far left" in this country, though the RW messaging ecosphere would have you believe that Kamala Harris or Joe Biden is "far left".

I wish there was a far left in this country. I want a government option for healthcare, and huge massive taxes on the rich and on corporations, and for the US to recognize finally that the Palestinians have been brutalized by weapons we sell to the Israel military, and so an arms embargo against Israel is in order until they stop treating the Palestinians like blacks under Jim Crow. And I could go on and on. IMO we need a far left, but there's none around.

 

[Machinehead]

If the Dems would only be more racist, bigoted, liars and fear mongers, maybe they could get more votes.

 

[finesse]

The Pew Foundation has pointed out that over the last 30 years or so (no, I'm not bothering to look up the details) The democrats have stayed essentially at the same place on the political spectrum while the Republicans have moved farther right. Don't much care to hear the "My party left me" BS you get from some of the fellow travelers and willing dupes who "left" the Democratic party because it's woke.

 

[Mulberry Heel]

If the Dems would only be more racist, bigoted, liars and fear mongers, maybe they could get more votes.

Every time I hear Republicans say that they might consider voting Democratic in a presidential election "if only" Democrats would nominate a more "centrist" or "moderate" or whatever candidate, what I hear them actually saying is that if Democrats would only become more like Republicans they might vote for them (except they wouldn't, they'd still vote Republican). It's the same argument they make every four years - if Democrats just became Republicans they would support them.

 

[RockyMtnHoo]

I’ve asked some of my Pub friends who claim not to like Trump, but parrot all of his talking points and keep voting for him anyway, what it would take to vote for a Dem.

A couple have said they could get behind someone like Tulsi Gabbard. So someone who trashes other Dems, takes Pub positions against her own party, and is a Fox News darling. They don’t want a Dem…they want a Pub with a (D) beside her name to feel better about themselves by claiming they don’t like Trump.

 

[ZenMode]

I don't understand his logic. How is tapping the race button going to save the Republican Party....which isn't at risk anyway?

 

[JCTarheel82]

I’ve asked some of my Pub friends who claim not to like Trump, but parrot all of his talking points and keep voting for him anyway, what it would take to vote for a Dem.

A couple have said they could get behind someone like Tulsi Gabbard. So someone who trashes other Dems, takes Pub positions against her own party, and is a Fox News darling. They don’t want a Dem…they want a Pub with a (D) beside her name to feel better about themselves by claiming they don’t like Trump.

Of course they would pick Gabbard. She's not even a Democrat anymore.

 

[SnoopRob]

I’ve asked some of my Pub friends who claim not to like Trump, but parrot all of his talking points and keep voting for him anyway, what it would take to vote for a Dem.

A couple have said they could get behind someone like Tulsi Gabbard. So someone who trashes other Dems, takes Pub positions against her own party, and is a Fox News darling. They don’t want a Dem…they want a Pub with a (D) beside her name to feel better about themselves by claiming they don’t like Trump.

This echoes my conversations with Republicans who make similar claims to only voting Pub because they feel Dems are too liberal/corrupt/etc...when I ask what kind of Dem they would vote for it becomes something to the effect of they'd consider Joe Manchin or someone similar...in effect they'd like the main parties to put forth a right of center candidate and a right-wing candidate for them to choose between.

 

[gtyellowjacket]

Of course they would pick Gabbard. She's not even a Democrat anymore.

She's not a Democrat anymore but she's still pretty liberal on a lot of issues.

I think her time in the service really affected her. She feels like the Democratic party is just too willing to use military force for things like regime change and instead wants that money directed more towards things like healthcare and education. She pushed back hard and the Democratic party pushed back harder on her.

Since she left the party, she has taken slightly more conservative positions on things like abortion, gun rights and trans issues but if you looked at her positions in totality, most would consider her much more liberal than conservative. Not many Republicans would vote for her once they saw her platform.

 

[Carolina Fever]

She's not a Democrat anymore but she's still pretty liberal on a lot of issues.

I think her time in the service really affected her. She feels like the Democratic party is just too willing to use military force for things like regime change and instead wants that money directed more towards things like healthcare and education. She pushed back hard and the Democratic party pushed back harder on her.

Since she left the party, she has taken slightly more conservative positions on things like abortion, gun rights and trans issues but if you looked at her positions in totality, most would consider her much more liberal than conservative. Not many Republicans would vote for her once they saw her platform.

 

[BlueSmoke]

Nothing offensive, just a completely brain dead take.

As has already been pointed out here, Dems have won the popular vote in every election but one starting in 1992. They hold the House and Senate roughly 50% of the time despite significant gerrymandering (the House) and the sea of barely-populated states in the West where land is valued over people (Senate).

But yet you act as if the Dems are barely holding on as a party and only do well when something negative happens against the Pubs. Your post smacks of "Why don't Dems appeal to all people at all times?"

There are certainly things that one can say as valid critiques against Dems, especially at certain local or regional levels, but your post weren't those things. Your post was based in an understanding that Trump and Pubs are somehow more appealing than Dems to the "average" voter, which is a complete falsehood.

Not talking about 90% of the voters. For the 90% its something of a tribal thing, so they are locked in. Talking about the 10% of the voters that decide elections.

Perhaps, the so called Obama voters that could go either way is what I'm talking about. To me, their current perception of Democrats has changed since Obama ran. Maybe its that FOX and company have ramped up the propaganda lies since Obama. Maybe Trump has broken thru painting the Dems as bad since he's been on the scene.

A good example would be an in-law relative I have that grew up in the mid west and now lives in NC. College degree in economics. Worked for the Federal Government for most of career. Retired. He's not a low information voter. Pretty sure he voted for Obama. Pretty sure he will vote for Harris simply because he knows the danger Trump presents. But......if it was any other Republican running, I fear he would vote for the Pub. When we discuss it a little bit, it seems to come thru that he's feeling there is just something about Democrats he's not liking. He didn't use to feel that way about Dems.

I don't think he's the only one in the 10%. Sorry, its just my opinion that something has changed. And I can't figure out how in the heck the outcome of this election is even close considering how bad Trump is.

 

[Mulberry Heel]

This echoes my conversations with Republicans who make similar claims to only voting Pub because they feel Dems are too liberal/corrupt/etc...when I ask what kind of Dem they would vote for it becomes something to the effect of they'd consider Joe Manchin or someone similar...in effect they'd like the main parties to put forth a right of center candidate and a right-wing candidate for them to choose between.

And most of them would still stick with Republicans in the end, because they would prefer the "original" conservative party over its newbie, rookie conservative competitor. I don't think most of these people would ever actually vote Democratic, even if they started nominating more conservative candidates. The whole "if the Democrats would just nominate..." line of argument is just an excuse for them to keep voting Republican. If the Democrats did turn more conservative they'd just find another excuse somehow to keep voting Republican. It's what they do.

 

[finesse]

Not talking about 90% of the voters. For the 90% its something of a tribal thing, so they are locked in. Talking about the 10% of the voters that decide elections.

Perhaps, the so called Obama voters that could go either way is what I'm talking about. To me, their current perception of Democrats has changed since Obama ran. Maybe its that FOX and company have ramped up the propaganda lies since Obama. Maybe Trump has broken thru painting the Dems as bad since he's been on the scene.

A good example would be an in-law relative I have that grew up in the mid west and now lives in NC. College degree in economics. Worked for the Federal Government for most of career. Retired. He's not a low information voter. Pretty sure he voted for Obama. Pretty sure he will vote for Harris simply because he knows the danger Trump presents. But......if it was any other Republican running, I fear he would vote for the Pub. When we discuss it a little bit, it seems to come thru that he's feeling there is just something about Democrats he's not liking. He didn't use to feel that way about Dems.

I don't think he's the only one in the 10%. Sorry, its just my opinion that something has changed. And I can't figure out how in the heck the outcome of this election is even close considering how bad Trump is.

Look to what can be supported by the data. It's the Republican Party that changed and your in law has been caught in the belief that it hasn't thrown away its integrity in the last 70 years. That's the real problem. Politics used to end at the water's edge. Now, Trump is illegally negotiating as a private citizen with a dictator who just allied with another enemy of ours. He should be in jail and not office
.
Look for the problem where the problem is. It's not the Democrats who have turned their backs on who they were. They are far from perfect but their policies of inclusion remain essentially the same. The Republicans flat peddled their ass to the highest bidders.

 

[mpaer]

She's not a Democrat anymore but she's still pretty liberal on a lot of issues.

I think her time in the service really affected her. She feels like the Democratic party is just too willing to use military force for things like regime change and instead wants that money directed more towards things like healthcare and education. She pushed back hard and the Democratic party pushed back harder on her.

Since she left the party, she has taken slightly more conservative positions on things like abortion, gun rights and trans issues but if you looked at her positions in totality, most would consider her much more liberal than conservative. Not many Republicans would vote for her once they saw her platform.

I have to "step back " on past comments to you. I think the Transgender thing scares a lot of folks that might otherwise vote for anybody but orangeturd

 

[In My Mind]

I think her time in the service really affected her.

I think her time in a cult affected her more. Seriously though, like Sinema (and honestly many politicians) she is first and foremost an opportunist, and for an anti-war Iraq veteran the Democratic party was a quick way to power. Not to mention that Hawaii hasn't elected a Republican to nation office in more than fifty years.

 

[In My Mind]

Trump's super power is he gives people permission to be their worst selves. We all struggle to live up to our standards and it's always easier to give in to your worst impulses if an authority figure says it's ok. This is particularly true for people, like religious conservatives, who have never developed a particularly sophisticated cognitive moral framework.

 

[gtyellowjacket]

I think her time in a cult affected her more. Seriously though, like Sinema (and honestly many politicians) she is first and foremost an opportunist, and for an anti-war Iraq veteran the Democratic party was a quick way to power. Not to mention that Hawaii hasn't elected a Republican to nation office in more than fifty years.

Moving from a Democratic darling to a Democratic pariah because she went up against the leadership and their military industrial complex donors doesn't exactly scream opportunist to me.

She is a military veteran, connects well with people, comes from a political family in Hawaii and was starting to make a national name for herself. If she was an opportunist, she would have kept her head down and almost certainly have been a senator and have an outside shot at the presidency. She gave all that up by pushing an anti-war or at least an anti-big war agenda.

 

[In My Mind]

Moving from a Democratic darling to a Democratic pariah because she went up against the leadership and their military industrial complex donors doesn't exactly scream opportunist to me.

The wingnut welfare state pays very well, and there are few roles as lucrative as "Democrat who saw the light". I guarantee she's making more money now than she ever has in her life and more than ever could have hope to as a Representative.

 

[finesse]

And now she has a sinecure for life.

 

[superrific]

Moving from a Democratic darling to a Democratic pariah because she went up against the leadership and their military industrial complex donors doesn't exactly scream opportunist to me.

She is a military veteran, connects well with people, comes from a political family in Hawaii and was starting to make a national name for herself. If she was an opportunist, she would have kept her head down and almost certainly have been a senator and have an outside shot at the presidency. She gave all that up by pushing an anti-war or at least an anti-big war agenda.

Um, you skipped a few steps there. Her tension with the Democrats wasn't over anti-war. It was about her insistence that Obama label Islam an enemy of the United States. It was her friendship with Assad. It was her opposition to gay marriage. And all of that started bubbling up around the time Modi was elected in India, and we know she has a fondness for him. What happened was that she drank the Hindu nationalist kool-aid. It wasn't her positions against war.