Where do we go from here?

[rodoheel]

No, but I also don't allow unknown males into my house to use the restroom with my daughter.

Do you allow unknown females into your house to use the restroom with your daughter?

 

[altmin]

Lot of good there, but I have to admit, whenever I see someone say we have to get prices down, I immediately knock them down a few pegs on the credibility list.

I am mad at how much the steaks cost, so I will vote for the guy who is going to round up the workers who make them and put up tariffs on the machines that slice them. That'll bring prices down. Very hard to get me out of FAFO mode right now.

 

[tallheel95]

Do you allow unknown females into your house to use the restroom with your daughter?

Not going to derail the thread for a debate about bathrooms, but just saying that when I studied abroad in Australia in 1994, I lived in a dorm where all of the bathrooms were co-ed. Including showers. At first it was weird for all the American students, but then we all got over it.

ETA: not that I'm arguing for co-ed showers or the like, just an observation about my experience

 

[rodoheel]

I am mad at how much the steaks cost, so I will vote for the guy who is going to round up the workers who make them and put up tariffs on the machines that slice them. That'll bring prices down. Very hard to get me out of FAFO mode right now.

Yeah I completely understand people being upset about prices being high. What I don't understand is that people don't even make the barest effort to try to understand why the prices are high, what the current government had to do with it (or didn't), and how (if at all) electing someone different will change it. I simply can't condone ignorance for the sake of ignorance. In this day and age there is no excuse for not spending just a few minutes of effort to attempt to understand these things. I'm not saying everyone will reach the same conclusion - that's Democracy in action! - but "inflation was low when Trump was in office, inflation is high now, therefore Trump will lower inflation" is not a substitute for critical thinking.

 

[wmheel1287]

No, but I also don't allow unknown males into my house to use the restroom with my daughter.

I would suggest that you consider allowing that before you allow Trump into the house with your daughter. Trump would be significantly more likely to rape them than a random sampling of unknown men.

 

[ZenMode]

Do you allow unknown females into your house to use the restroom with your daughter?

No. That would be weird, also.

 

[rodoheel]

No. That would be weird, also.

Right - which is the whole point, that the gender of the person doesn't make any difference. When your child, male or female, goes into a public restroom, they are doing so with strangers, male or female, who you probably wouldn't let come use the bathroom at your house. What is bizarre is that thinking that allowing trans people (a tiny minority of the population) to use the restroom of the gender with which they identify somehow increases the likelihood that your child will be assaulted or violated in the restroom - something which is obviously already illegal.

 

[ZenMode]

Right - which is the whole point, that the gender of the person doesn't make any difference. When your child, male or female, goes into a public restroom, they are doing so with strangers, male or female, who you probably wouldn't let come use the bathroom at your house. What is bizarre is that thinking that allowing trans people (a tiny minority of the population) to use the restroom of the gender with which they identify somehow increases the likelihood that your child will be assaulted or violated in the restroom - something which is obviously already illegal.

Like I said yesterday, the debate about restrooms is a secondary issue. The issue, to the degree that there is one, is that Biden used an EO to guarantee males access to girls bathrooms within weeks of taking office, but took over 2 years to use EO to address the border crisis.

It's a perception of priorities. An EO for transgender students is welcomed by Democrats, so it's put into place almost immediately. An EO to address the crisis of people illegally entering the country by the millions is likely viewed as racist.

 

[finesse]

Like I said yesterday, the debate about restrooms is a secondary issue. The issue, to the degree that there is one, is that Biden used an EO to guarantee males access to girls bathrooms within weeks of taking office, but took over 2 years to use EO to address the border crisis.

It's a perception of priorities. An EO for transgender students is welcomed by Democrats, so it's put into place almost immediately. An EO to address the crisis of people illegally entering the country by the millions is likely viewed as racist.

The difference is that the first is a yes or no and affects very few people in any tangible fashion. The other affects millions, the national economy and international relations. Which decision requires time, research and diplomacy? I know nuance isn't highly valued but neither is the thoughts of a fool.

 

[Wheels81]

I like Trae’s take:

 

[ZenMode]

I like Trae’s take:

"A big chunk of people in this country believed that Biden borrowed cloud magic from the Jews....".

 

[ZenMode]

The difference is that the first is a yes or no and affects very few people in any tangible fashion. The other affects millions, the national economy and international relations. Which decision requires time, research and diplomacy? I know nuance isn't highly valued but neither is the thoughts of a fool.

Even if it's true that it takes years to take action, that situation is only one of several. The NYTimes opinion I posted on an earlier page talks about some others. Yes, it's just opinion and nobody knows for sure, even with exit polling, why Harris lost.

Here's another relatively interesting exit poll analysis. The bolded sections, I believe, say a lot. Cultural issues were the top issue for swing voters who eventually voted for Trump, according to the poll.

Why America Chose Trump: Inflation, Immigration, and the Democratic Brand
Harris couldn’t outrun her past or her party— it was a vice grip that proved impossible to escape.
November 8, 2024

KEY FINDINGS:KEY FINDINGS
The top reasons voters gave for not supporting Harris were that inflation was too high (+24), too many immigrants crossed the border (+23), and that Harris was too focused on cultural issues rather than helping the middle class (+17).

Other high-testing reasons were that the debt rose too much under the Biden-Harris Administration (+13), and that Harris would be too similar to Joe Biden (+12).

These concerns were similar across all demographic groups, including among Black and Latino voters, who both selected inflation as their top problem with Harris. For swing voters who eventually chose Trump, cultural issues ranked slightly higher than inflation (+28 and +23, respectively).

The lowest-ranked concerns were that Harris wasn’t similar enough to Biden (-24), was too conservative (-23), and was too pro-Israel (-22).
Today, Blueprint released the first data-based report about why voters cast their vote the way they did with a new poll conducted in the days after Election Day and weighted to the 2024 election results.

..........................................................


more:

Why America Chose Trump: Inflation, Immigration, and the Democratic Brand - Blueprint

Harris couldn’t outrun her past or her party— it was a vice grip that proved impossible to escape.

blueprint2024.com

 

[BlueSmoke]

I am going to evolve a little from yesterday's post that the messaging didn't matter because we first had to focus on the next two years and save Democracy for the next election.

Actually, messaging might be a big help in countering Trump seizing power and bridge over to the Presidential Election in four years.

Now I don't pretend to understand identity politics or the focus on special interest group appeasement. But this problem was evident when the Harris campaign felt it couldn't respond in some fashion to the transgender ad.

Democrats have got to emphasize messaging that its the party "for the people". This will contrast to what we know Trump will be doing. And everytime he runs counter to that, we can point it out.

And if identity politics has to be thrown under the bus.........well so be it. The future is at stake.

 

[superrific]

Like I said yesterday, the debate about restrooms is a secondary issue. The issue, to the degree that there is one, is that Biden used an EO to guarantee males access to girls bathrooms within weeks of taking office, but took over 2 years to use EO to address the border crisis.

It's a perception of priorities. An EO for transgender students is welcomed by Democrats, so it's put into place almost immediately. An EO to address the crisis of people illegally entering the country by the millions is likely viewed as racist.

I gave the precise citation to the EO, executed on the first day of Joe's presidency, about the border. You are just lying again and again because you have nothing.

 

[superrific]

I am going to evolve a little from yesterday's post that the messaging didn't matter because we first had to focus on the next two years and save Democracy for the next election.

Actually, messaging might be a big help in countering Trump seizing power and bridge over to the Presidential Election in four years.

Now I don't pretend to understand identity politics or the focus on special interest group appeasement. But this problem was evident when the Harris campaign felt it couldn't respond in some fashion to the transgender ad.

Democrats have got to emphasize messaging that its the party "for the people". This will contrast to what we know Trump will be doing. And everytime he runs counter to that, we can point it out.

And if identity politics has to be thrown under the bus.........well so be it. The future is at stake.

All politics in America are now identity politics. If you don't understand that MAGA is the most comprehensively identity-fueled political movement in modern history, then you don't understand politics.

 

[ZenMode]

I gave the precise citation to the EO, executed on the first day of Joe's presidency, about the border. You are just lying again and again because you have nothing.

Here's the link to a June 2024 EO:

Biden signs executive action drastically tightening border

He has faced political pressure as migrants have continued to arrive at the U.S.-Mexico border.

www.nbcnews.com

Here's the EO from March of 2021 ralated to transgender students.

EO 14021:
Guaranteeing an Educational Environment Free From Discrimination on the Basis of Sex, Including Sexual Orientation or Gender Identity

Signed:March 8, 2021

Published:March 11, 2021FR Citation:86 FR 13803FR Doc. Number:2021-05200

I was wrong about the details of the 2021. It was related to transgender students, not gender affirming surgeries for prisoners. The ultimate perception is largely unchanged.

I didn't see any replies with a citation.

 

[WaynetheDrain]

So "working class" , no college degree folks-you were better off in the massive unemployment, supply chain shortage, pandemic days of Trump?
Am I getting it right here ?

No, they were better off in the first two years of Trump’s first presidency, pre-pandemic and pre-inflation.

Which is to say, they were better off during the Obama economy, which was dropped right into Trump’s lap, and which he joyfully took all the credit for despite not doing anything to improve upon it. And his dumb cuck cultists like Ramnoiser swallowed his lies about the “world’s greatest economy” whole.

 

[finesse]

No one's surprised at you being wrong.

 

[BubbaOtis]

Yeah I completely understand people being upset about prices being high. What I don't understand is that people don't even make the barest effort to try to understand why the prices are high, what the current government had to do with it (or didn't), and how (if at all) electing someone different will change it. I simply can't condone ignorance for the sake of ignorance. In this day and age there is no excuse for not spending just a few minutes of effort to attempt to understand these things. I'm not saying everyone will reach the same conclusion - that's Democracy in action! - but "inflation was low when Trump was in office, inflation is high now, therefore Trump will lower inflation" is not a substitute for critical thinking.

I agree in terms of the "reality" of inflation, but both candidates ran on reducing inflation (groceries,etc.) going forward. I do think the amount of stimulus pumped into the economy, under Trump and Biden, spurred inflation in consumer goods. It wasn't just supply chain issues beyond a certain point. You can't simultaneously say you'll fix something going forward and shrug off the past saying you couldn't control it. On an intellectual level, I knew all along Harris couldn't control prices. She admitted as much ultimately in moderating her position to only include "gouging" in emergency situations.

 

[superrific]

Here's the link to a June 2024 EO:

Biden signs executive action drastically tightening border

He has faced political pressure as migrants have continued to arrive at the U.S.-Mexico border.

www.nbcnews.com

Here's the EO from March of 2021 ralated to transgender students.

EO 14021:
Guaranteeing an Educational Environment Free From Discrimination on the Basis of Sex, Including Sexual Orientation or Gender Identity

Signed:March 8, 2021

Published:March 11, 2021FR Citation:86 FR 13803FR Doc. Number:2021-05200

I was wrong about the details of the 2021. It was related to transgender students, not gender affirming surgeries for prisoners. The ultimate perception is largely unchanged.

I didn't see any replies with a citation.

EO 13993, January 20, 2021. Shove the rest of your non stop bullshit back up your cow's ass.