Where do we go from here?

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ZenMode said:
Right. In your opinion, there were literally only two options to stem the flow. Title 42 and the 2023 regulation. There were no other options at the Biden admin's disposal.

Got it.
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Was the timing perfect? No. Does image matter? Yes. Was Biden’s plan somewhat for optics? Sure. But Biden would have benefited, politically, had he put out an earlier Immigration bill. Not doing so for as long as he did reads to me like much of it was because they were being careful. And it is a well written law. You should read it. All of that signals to me that a lot of what Super is saying is true. And he is certainly far more of an expert on the subject than I am. It is literally his field of study. That still matters.
 
CFordUNC said:


Will never not be funny that all it took for Republicans to completely abandon conservatism was for an obese makeup-wearing gold toilet shitting trust fund failure to come down a golden elevator.
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If they cap credit card interest rates at 10%, probably 75% of Americans will no longer have a credit card. The companies will drop their available credit to match their balance and follow the balance down with credit line drops.

This will also tank the credit scores of tens of millions of Americans as their available credit disappears and their percentage of debt to available credit balloons.

Let's be clear...credit card companies will NOT make unsecured loans to the vast majority of Americans at 10% interest rates.
 
superrific said:
Start a new thread. This is a tangent. In addition, I don't think you have a lot of insight on this particular question. You're making assumptions that are simply not warranted.
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Says the person who claims Rush Limbaugh caused hurricanes this year. Anyway, I’m done. On to bigger and better issues.
 
sringwal said:
A little bit of handwringing and scorn vs. literal election denial and a resurrection.

This isn’t an even playing field, ya’ll.

Sure, democrats have done some things that make people feel disrespected, but again - and this can not be said enough - Trump accused a group of people living legally in America of eating pets, insulted generals and their families, and has spouted disrespectful comments about every person, who is not him, in this country at some point in time.

The man has called for massive deportations, which may include people legally living here as refugees; a day of violence, where police are free to do what they want; and, just throwing it out there, the assassination of his political rivals, and the return of firing squads.


But, sure, sure, it is the democrats who are constantly disrespecting folks.

Ok.

He may not be Hitler, but he sure as fuck has taken Putin’s playbook.
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Yeah, I'm so sick of this double standard, and it is real. Donald Trump is the most verbally abusive presidential candidate in American history. He basically does nothing in his campaigns - or his presidential administrations - but talk trash and threaten individuals and whole groups of people. But somehow denigrating Democratic voters doesn't matter and isn't considered to be condescending or arrogant. But let a Democrat say anything even remotely insulting to Trumpers, and they lose their shit and play the victim and the news media focuses obsessively on it. The double standard is simple - insulting Democratic voters is acceptable and fine, insulting Trumpers is snooty and arrogant and beyond the pale. And while Democrats need to always be nice to Trumpers and not get upset by all their insults and shit-talking, Republicans have no such obligations towards Democrats. It's like those articles and posts written right after the election that liberals shouldn't shun Trumper relatives and family members over the holidays this year, even if said relatives taunt them and talk trash. Democrats just need to suck it up and take it, while Republicans can play the victim if Democrats say anything in response.
 
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Like - there is no questions that this is going to be a respectful transfer of power by democrats. Knowing what might happen. Because it is important to show, even when things don't go your way, grace and honor. And I haven't seen anyone acknowledge that because everyone is spinning this whole damned thing to fit their agenda.
 
sringwal said:
Was the timing perfect? No. Does image matter? Yes. Was Biden’s plan somewhat for optics? Sure. But Biden would have benefited, politically, had he put out an earlier Immigration bill. Not doing so for as long as he did reads to me like much of it was because they were being careful. And it is a well written law. You should read it. All of that signals to me that a lot of what Super is saying is true. And he is certainly far more of an expert on the subject than I am. It is literally his field of study. That still matters.
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Sure. I've provided no opinion on the law itself. Two things can be true. The law is well written and well thought-out and there was feet dragging in a acknowledging the border crisis as well as political concerns about taking action.
 
How about giving me a quick breakdown of the border crisis? How many people are actually involved? How many are illegal? How many are criminal? Just what are the dangerous elements that they bring? What are the major problems that are caused by them as opposed to by how we handle them? Btw, drug trafficking and immigration should be and are two separate issues, so don't bother with that.

Are we now getting more illegal immigrants through border crossings than by people overstaying visas? I'm still of a mind that the only people ever damaged by immigration to America was native Americans.
 
finesse said:
How about giving me a quick breakdown of the border crisis? How many people are actually involved? How many are illegal? How many are criminal? Just what are the dangerous elements that they bring? What are the major problems that are caused by them as opposed to by how we handle them? Btw, drug trafficking and immigration should be and are two separate issues, so don't bother with that.

Are we now getting more illegal immigrants through border crossings than by people overstaying visas? I'm still of a mind that the only people ever damaged by immigration to America was native Americans.
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Messaging Messaging Pubs are Kings
 
ZenMode said:
Only because, according to exit polls, it was a big issue for some voters. One that was viewed to have been ignored for a significant amount of time by the Biden admin.
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Wonder if that has anything to do with 4 years of campaign ads telling people all the evils of the border.

This may be hard to believe, but everyone crossing the border wasn't released from a sanitarium or prison in another country.

Do we need comprehensive border policy reform, yes. Do we need to build a wall, deport everyone, and become isolationist, no.

But when people constantly hear the trump lies for years, it embeds in their brain and becomes much more of an issue than it ever really was.

Of course, democrats didn't help much with their messaging.
 
wmheel1287 said:
If they cap credit card interest rates at 10%, probably 75% of Americans will no longer have a credit card. The companies will drop their available credit to match their balance and follow the balance down with credit line drops.

This will also tank the credit scores of tens of millions of Americans as their available credit disappears and their percentage of debt to available credit balloons.

Let's be clear...credit card companies will NOT make unsecured loans to the vast majority of Americans at 10% interest rates.
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Honestly, this is probably a good thing.

I read and hear so much about people trapped in credit card debt. Maybe they shouldn't have received the credit cards to begin with.

Maybe they should have to take a class to understand what that impulse buy at 24% looks like in the long run?
 
stankeylegjones said:
Bill Maher's thoughts on what the party should do:

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Everything from "Democrats run for office as if voters don't live here" is on point. Maher has been ahead of the curve regarding the Democratic Party's impending downfall. Most people don't see the racist, xenophobic, misogynistic, intolerant country white progressives tell us exists.
 
UNCatTech said:
Honestly, this is probably a good thing.

I read and hear so much about people trapped in credit card debt. Maybe they shouldn't have received the credit cards to begin with.

Maybe they should have to take a class to understand what that impulse buy at 24% looks like in the long run?
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Doubt that would help with the housing crisis we’ve got going on. When people can’t get approved for mortgages or apartment leases because they don’t have access to lines of credit, things would get uglier than they are now.
 
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ZenMode said:
Everything from "Democrats run for office as if voters don't live here" is on point. Maher has been ahead of the curve regarding the Democratic Party's impending downfall. Most people don't see the racist, xenophobic, misogynistic, intolerant country white progressives tell us exists.
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I don't think that is what Maher is saying. Folks definitely see them.
 
UNCatTech said:
Honestly, this is probably a good thing.

I read and hear so much about people trapped in credit card debt. Maybe they shouldn't have received the credit cards to begin with.

Maybe they should have to take a class to understand what that impulse buy at 24% looks like in the long run?
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That kind of abrupt change is only a good thing if you think a complete collapse of the economy is a necessary step toward a good end.

What you're speaking of would result in millions of households not spending a penny on Christmas, not having the means to take a kid to the doctor, and most importantly not being able to address a monthly cash flow shortfall likley resulting in mass homelessness.

Would such a change over a LONG period of time with a gradual scaling down be helpful? Probably. But instantly capping credit card interest at 10% would be a colossal catastrophe for this country.
 
sringwal said:
But what you need to get is that Zen is much more politically knowledgeable than the average voter.
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Sure. And that's why I'm hoping he will see the need to share that knowledge in a constructive way and not just spread bullshit.

There's plenty of room for differences of opinion within the realm of reality. We can still debate what good border policy should look like when we accept that border policy can't actually be effected by the president signing pieces of paper.
 
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