Where do we go from here?

[CFordUNC]

 

[superrific]

But what you need to get is that Zen is much more politically knowledgeable than the average voter.

Sure. And that's why I'm hoping he will see the need to share that knowledge in a constructive way and not just spread bullshit.

There's plenty of room for differences of opinion within the realm of reality. We can still debate what good border policy should look like when we accept that border policy can't actually be effected by the president signing pieces of paper.

 

[UNCatTech]

Doubt that would help with the housing crisis, we’ve got going on. When people can’t get approved for mortgages or apartment leases because they don’t have access to lines of credit, things would get uglier than they are now.

True, but this has always puzzled me how having more unsecured credit improves your credit score.

From what I've read this is a US thing and other countries don't look as favorably on unsecured credit.

At the same time, many of the people with very high unsecured debt (CC Debt) are not qualifying anyway because of debt to income ratio.

 

[superrific]

Was Biden’s plan somewhat for optics? Sure.

It wasn't for optics. One of the parts of the 2023 regulation was the establishment of "check-in" points along the migrant path. American law has always provided that asylum seekers are required to seek asylum at the first safe haven country. But the problem is that countries like Mexico, Guatemala, etc. are not necessarily safe. So when the asylum seekers arrive at the border, they have a right to a credible fear interview that encompasses all of the dangers they faced along the way.

But if US consulates have the ability to do credible fear interviews, that accomplishes a few things. First, it removes the countries of transit from credible fear. Second, it weeds out some non-meritorious claims before they even get to the border. And third, by offering the opportunity for people to seek asylum with the US before arriving at the US, it allows the US to turn them away, saying "you're not in the right place to do this."

This is an important and required step for anything like a "remain in Mexico" policy. It's the single best way to prevent migrants from gathering at the border. As many of us have noted, keeping migrants at the border does not improve American safety. It just gives drug gangs ample and low-cost labor.

 

[lawtig02]

Everything from "Democrats run for office as if voters don't live here" is on point. Maher has been ahead of the curve regarding the Democratic Party's impending downfall. Most people don't see the racist, xenophobic, misogynistic, intolerant country white progressives tell us exists.

Wait, you think the Pub base is the one who sees America accurately? Seriously?

 

[superrific]

Everything from "Democrats run for office as if voters don't live here" is on point. Maher has been ahead of the curve regarding the Democratic Party's impending downfall. Most people don't see the racist, xenophobic, misogynistic, intolerant country white progressives tell us exists.

One party was telling stories about migrants eating pets, about Midwest towns being occupied by gangs who were given permission (by the universal foil, "them") to shoot at law enforcement officers, about the country being a complete trash can, about our cities being plagued by epidemics of violence, etc.

It was not the Democrats. I mean, seriously, did you watch anything that happened over the past 6 months. The idea that it's Dems living in unreality is risible and anyone who offers it should be laughed out of the room.

 

[UNCatTech]

That kind of abrupt change is only a good thing if you think a complete collapse of the economy is a necessary step toward a good end.

What you're speaking of would result in millions of households not spending a penny on Christmas, not having the means to take a kid to the doctor, and most importantly not being able to address a monthly cash flow shortfall likley resulting in mass homelessness.

Would such a change over a LONG period of time with a gradual scaling down be helpful? Probably. But instantly capping credit card interest at 10% would be a colossal catastrophe for this country.

So, I'm not advocating the change. I'm sure there are lots of components, as you mentioned, that would need to be considered.

My thought was just off the cuff as I read so much about credit card debt in this country. I also listen to a couple of podcast that talk with people about understanding finances. I'm always puzzled at why people can't do the math and understand how much of a negative revolving unsecured credit at 20%+ interest is.

Also, if we dig deeper, the things you mention are troubling. If a person is relying on credit to take their kid to the doctor, there's deeper financial issues.

Not that I have the answer, personal finance is not simple. I've been learning and improving my entire life and still have so many issues, but one thing I, thankfully, learned in my early 20's was the negative impact of carrying credit card debt. I've paid off my credit card balance monthly for the past 30 years.

 

[superrific]

Right. In your opinion, there were literally only two options to stem the flow. Title 42 and the 2023 regulation. There were no other options at the Biden admin's disposal.

Got it.

There were other options. What part of "rulemaking takes time" do you not understand?

 

[superrific]

Says the person who claims Rush Limbaugh caused hurricanes this year. Anyway, I’m done. On to bigger and better issues.

Link? Please show me saying that.

Good lord, has the mindworm eaten your brain too? It's impossible to have a serious conversation with someone who will spew this tripe. If you no longer want to have conversations with me, you could just say that. You don't have to embarrass yourself with nonsense that will lead to the same result.

 

[UNCatTech]

Everything from "Democrats run for office as if voters don't live here" is on point. Maher has been ahead of the curve regarding the Democratic Party's impending downfall. Most people don't see the racist, xenophobic, misogynistic, intolerant country white progressives tell us exists.

Well, except those living it.

 

[ZenMode]

Wonder if that has anything to do with 4 years of campaign ads telling people all the evils of the border.

This may be hard to believe, but everyone crossing the border wasn't released from a sanitarium or prison in another country.

Do we need comprehensive border policy reform, yes. Do we need to build a wall, deport everyone, and become isolationist, no.

But when people constantly hear the trump lies for years, it embeds in their brain and becomes much more of an issue than it ever really was.

Of course, democrats didn't help much with their messaging.

Unfortunately, it is becoming more and more difficult to control disinformation, especially when it comes from the leader of a cult of personality like Trump. Even putting the lies aside, people know that there was a significant issue at the border during Biden's presidency.

We definitely need to do something about the border. Drug cartels are apparently manipulating border patrol agents by sending floods of people to one area while sneaking drugs through in another area when CBP agents are distracted. Until we have something much closer to a secure border, including physical barriers, it's going to be difficult to implement legislative and procedural changes that are going to matter, much less stop the flow of drugs.

I would like to see a much more robust and efficient guest worker program. I don't know how impactful that is going to be when it's probably easier just to sneak across the border.

I would also like to see changes in the asylum program to filter more people out at the border. That would ease the stress on the court system where people are waiting for years to be told yes or no.

I think it would also help considerably if the Democratic party leaders would take a different tone when it comes to the border.

 

[superrific]

I am hoping that Bernie is just trolling Trump here (i.e. calling him out on the emptiness of his pledge). I'd also take "poking at Biden on his way out" which isn't classy but ultimately harmless.

But if Bernie actually thinks that capping credit card interest rates at a level that is less than many home mortgages is a good idea, then he's the guy moderates have always said he is. Deeply unserious.

This is 2024, a year filled with incredibly stupid ideas gaining circulation. So I'll refrain from comparing this particular idea to its contemporaries. Prior to 2020, capping interest rates at 10% would have been one of the worst ideas articulated by any major party candidate this millennium.

 

[lawtig02]

Unfortunately, it is becoming more and more difficult to control disinformation, especially when it comes from the leader of a cult of personality like Trump. Even putting the lies aside, people know that there was a significant issue at the border during Biden's presidency.

We definitely need to do something about the border. Drug cartels are apparently manipulating border patrol agents by sending floods of people to one area while sneaking drugs through in another area when CBP agents are distracted. Until we have something much closer to a secure border, including physical barriers, it's going to be difficult to implement legislative and procedural changes that are going to matter, much less stop the flow of drugs.

I would like to see a much more robust and efficient guest worker program. I don't know how impactful that is going to be when it's probably easier just to sneak across the border.

I would also like to see changes in the asylum program to filter more people out at the border. That would ease the stress on the court system where people are waiting for years to be told yes or no.

I think it would also help considerably if the Democratic party leaders would take a different tone when it comes to the border.

Right. And you know what would be the best gift to the cartels in the history of our border policies? Doing what Trump wants to do. Reinstating Remain in Mexico in particular.

 

[superrific]

Unfortunately, it is becoming more and more difficult to control disinformation, especially when it comes from the leader of a cult of personality like Trump. Even putting the lies aside, people know that there was a significant issue at the border during Biden's presidency.

Well, it's especially difficult when you spread it, not fight it. If you want to fight disinformation, then the first step is to learn information. Then fight against disinformation.

I haven't seen any inclination from you to take even that first step, so it's risible to see you talking about fighting disinformation. It's like Shane Battier saying that we have to do something about flopping.

 

[MendotoManteo]

Why in the hell ya'll bother trying to reason with some of these guys, I'll never understand. Perhaps you just like "getting it out there" and seeing your own posts. If they haven't realized by now, they ain't gonna realize. And will never admit it even if they do.

Just move on. Although, I do admit it adds intrigue to the board. So we thank you for that.

 

[UNCatTech]

Unfortunately, it is becoming more and more difficult to control disinformation, especially when it comes from the leader of a cult of personality like Trump. Even putting the lies aside, people know that there was a significant issue at the border during Biden's presidency.

We definitely need to do something about the border. Drug cartels are apparently manipulating border patrol agents by sending floods of people to one area while sneaking drugs through in another area when CBP agents are distracted. Until we have something much closer to a secure border, including physical barriers, it's going to be difficult to implement legislative and procedural changes that are going to matter, much less stop the flow of drugs.

I would like to see a much more robust and efficient guest worker program. I don't know how impactful that is going to be when it's probably easier just to sneak across the border.

I would also like to see changes in the asylum program to filter more people out at the border. That would ease the stress on the court system where people are waiting for years to be told yes or no.

I think it would also help considerably if the Democratic party leaders would take a different tone when it comes to the border.

I believe we had a guest worker program under Obama that Trump stopped.

I recall an interview with a migrant worker where he explained how good the guest worker program was for him. He also said that it deterred entering illegally because one caught doing that would no longer qualify for the guest worker program.

I am in agreement that we need better policy. I just get sick of trumps rhetoric painting everyone coming here as criminals and mentally ill people, when the vast majority are people willing to work and looking for an opportunity.


Googled guest worker:
The H2A Guest-Worker Program

Created in 2008, this program allows employers to hire workers from other countries for 10 months or less under Section 218 of the Immigration and Nationality Act. It guarantees the worker rights, better wages, and housing than that provided during the bracero programs.

 

[lawtig02]

I believe we had a guest worker program under Obama that Trump stopped.

I recall an interview with a migrant worker where he explained how good the guest worker program was for him. He also said that it deterred entering illegally because one caught doing that would no longer qualify for the guest worker program.

I am in agreement that we need better policy. I just get sick of trumps rhetoric painting everyone coming here as criminals and mentally ill people, when the vast majority are people willing to work and looking for an opportunity.


Googled guest worker:
The H2A Guest-Worker Program

Created in 2008, this program allows employers to hire workers from other countries for 10 months or less under Section 218 of the Immigration and Nationality Act. It guarantees the worker rights, better wages, and housing than that provided during the bracero programs.

Correct. Illegal immigration was basically flat from 2017 to 2019 before spiking in 2019 and crashing with Covid in 2020. The reduction in immigration numbers in Trump’s first term was that he slashed most forms of legal immigration, including highly popular guest worker programs.

 

[ZenMode]

Well, it's especially difficult when you spread it, not fight it. If you want to fight disinformation, then the first step is to learn information. Then fight against disinformation.

Assuming that you are referring to the border crisis and the way it was handled by the Biden administration, we agree on the facts of that. Title 42 was in place. Title 42 expired. The next action was in process and was implemented in June of 2024.

Where we disagree is whether or not politics played a role in the timing and general inaction during the 3 years. You have one opinion. I have a different one. Either way, they are only opinions.

I haven't seen any inclination from you to take even that first step, so it's risible to see you talking about fighting disinformation. It's like Shane Battier saying that we have to do something about flopping.

You aren't reading a portion of my posts. I ridicule Trump and his followers for their lies and overall gullibility on a regular basis. The biggest of Which is probably all of their election lies.

 

[UNCatTech]

It's like Shane Battier saying that we have to do something about flopping.

Damn, that's cold...

 

[UNCatTech]

Although, I do admit it adds intrigue to the board. So we thank you for that.

This.

And the nice one liner, like Super's about Battier.