2024 Pre-Election Political Polls | POLL - Trump would have had 7 point lead over Biden

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About 4 years ago I cut back on Facebook posting and that was highly beneficial. It's still helpful as a way to connect with friends but removing it from my home screen helped

I never post on Instagram so that's not an issue.

Twitter is toxic. I haven't deleted it but I don't post

LinkedIn is a necessary evil. But my God of the apps that give me heartburn it's the worst

I have never done ticket ticks or snap chat.

I feel in a way social media is going through some things as people are becoming very aware of the toxicity
Same here. I've never posted on Instagram, Snapchat, Reddit, etc. I do have a Twitter and LinkedIn page but very, very rarely post on either. I have a Facebook page and use it to keep in touch with friends and relatives, but I don't take the chain posts or right-wing crap on it very seriously. The vast majority of what I do read and post is here, actually.
 
"Survived" is a rather relative term, given what happened during covid. Liberals may lose "their ever loving minds" if Trump wins (and for good reasons, I would argue) but I seriously doubt you're going to see them storming the Capitol as happened with Trumpers on 1/6/21, and I doubt there will be any violence if Trump wins - just a lot of disgust and justifiable fear about what happens next.
He knows this. But it takes away from his "both sides are bad" mantra.

When people talk about "surviving" Trump in 2016, I think some (especially on the right) forget how much we had to do to get our economy back on track, forge alliances in Europe all over again, etc. Those changes didn't simply happen overnight. Some are still felt to this day. So spare me the "it's only 4 years" crap.
 
I'm starting to get the sinking feeling that the 2024 electoral map is going to look at lot like the 2016 electoral outcome ...
There's zero basis for that sinking feeling. I think you're reading the polls too much and psyching yourself out. Read Ezra Klein's column in the Times today.

I mean, maybe Trump wins. We can't tell. But there's no greater reason to think that today than, say, last week or two weeks ago. Nothing is changing in this race right now, or nothing that we can see. Whatever is happening isn't yet observable to us.

This is a way of guessing that a) you're feeling anxiety about the election as it gets closer; and b) you're attaching that anxiety to a "growing sense" that the race is being lost. But b) is wrong. The race isn't being lost. And as Plouffe says, it's better to be us than them.
 
Half the country is pushing a narrative that a Trump win is apocalyptic even though he’s already been president for 4 years previously and we all survived.
100% of men and women who die survived not only the previous 4 years but the previous 14. And yet, despite that track record, they die. Get it?
 
Frankly, you and I are discussing totally different topics. I'm discussing why liberals at large were shocked by Trump's victory in 2016, and you're discussing American warmongering and imperialism and being a global policeman. And I'm not even disagreeing with you, I'm just discussing something that doesn't relate to that. If you want to take off on that tangent then by all means go ahead, but that wasn't the point of my post.
I don't think it's a tangent. Part of explaining liberal shock in 2016 is understanding that the average liberal has an exceedingly selective view of decency, a point underscored by recent efforts to rehabilitate Dick Cheney and, over the years, any number of detestable Republicans who just happened to think Trump too gauche and too dumb to elect. Back in the good ol' days, when the Republican establishment wanted to unnecessarily murder hundreds of thousands of people, they had the common decency to couch it in rhetoric of freedom and democracy, to win Democratic support, and to make it sound intellectually and morally respectable.
 
I don't think it's a tangent. Part of explaining liberal shock in 2016 is understanding that the average liberal has an exceedingly selective view of decency, a point underscored by recent efforts to rehabilitate Dick Cheney and, over the years, any number of detestable Republicans who just happened to think Trump too gauche and too dumb to elect. Back in the good ol' days, when the Republican establishment wanted to unnecessarily murder hundreds of thousands of people, they had the common decency to couch it in rhetoric of freedom and democracy, to win Democratic support, and to make it sound intellectually and morally respectable.
I think you overstate the rehabilitation bit. It's more along the lines that if even a skunk can smell that shit, something really stinks. That's my take on it, anyway.
 
I think you overstate the rehabilitation bit. It's more along the lines that if even a skunk can smell that shit, something really stinks. That's my take on it, anyway.
You may very well be right, though Michelle Obama seems to be fine and dandy with George W Bush, who wrecked the world on a number of fronts.
 
You may very well be right, though Michelle Obama seems to be fine and dandy with George W Bush, who wrecked the world on a number of fronts.
I don't like the man and what he did, either. I did feel like he was largely a puppet and don't know him as a person. They both share what the pressure of being in the White House is like so I can get it. Not my business, anyway. I think we all have had dubious friendships.
 
I don't like the man and what he did, either. I did feel like he was largely a puppet and don't know him as a person. They both share what the pressure of being in the White House is like so I can get it. Not my business, anyway. I think we all have had dubious friendships.
I think Bush also is somewhat contrite about it all, which, I guess ymmv but seems genuine to me. That doesn’t much help hundreds of thousands of dead iraqis I realize.
 
I don't like the man and what he did, either. I did feel like he was largely a puppet and don't know him as a person. They both share what the pressure of being in the White House is like so I can get it. Not my business, anyway. I think we all have had dubious friendships.
George W Bush is not a dubious friend. My most dubious friends have combined to kill exactly zero people. Compared to my most dubious friend, George W Bush is a monster. Puppet or not, he co-signed a disastrous, illegal war that killed hundreds of thousands of people. And Bush's "aw shucks" personality has no bearing on the issue.
 
I don't think it's a tangent. Part of explaining liberal shock in 2016 is understanding that the average liberal has an exceedingly selective view of decency, a point underscored by recent efforts to rehabilitate Dick Cheney and, over the years, any number of detestable Republicans who just happened to think Trump too gauche and too dumb to elect. Back in the good ol' days, when the Republican establishment wanted to unnecessarily murder hundreds of thousands of people, they had the common decency to couch it in rhetoric of freedom and democracy, to win Democratic support, and to make it sound intellectually and morally respectable.
Again, my analysis was why were the great majority of liberals so shocked by Trump's victory in 2016. I mentioned that if you wanted to argue that they shouldn't have been shocked or that their view of decency was flawed, then by all means do so. And that is what you are doing here. But that is not what I was posting about. If you wish to continue arguing in this direction then by all means go ahead, but as I have no interest in arguing that topic I'll leave it to others to debate it.
 
George W Bush is not a dubious friend. My most dubious friends have combined to kill exactly zero people. Compared to my most dubious friend, George W Bush is a monster. Puppet or not, he co-signed a disastrous, illegal war that killed hundreds of thousands of people. And Bush's "aw shucks" personality has no bearing on the issue.
You realize that Obama, as president, authorized the deaths of a whole lot of people as well, right? Honestly, authorizing the deaths of folks is part of being US president in nearly all cases.

So should Michelle divorce Barack for being a dubious husband?
 
You realize that Obama, as president, authorized the deaths of a whole lot of people as well, right? Honestly, authorizing the deaths of folks is part of being US president in nearly all cases.

So should Michelle divorce Barack for being a dubious husband?
Obama belongs in hell with Bush too, though probably on a plusher level with less cock-based torture.
 
Is there anyone involved in government who you don't find largely or completely compromised?
Since the federal government pursues such an aggressive foreign policy, state governorships are probably the last chance for executive-level decency in the United States.
 
Obama belongs in hell with Bush too, though probably on a plusher level with less cock-based torture.
Please tell me you don't really believe someone can serve as POTUS without making life and death calls as a relatively regular part of the job.
 
You're a naif.

When did decency become a perequisite for politicians? Seems a bit inhibitory, in fact I agree that I want a decent person to be president but he can't be a decent person in his role as president. He needs to be the most pragmatic person possible who does the best he can for us while doing the least harm he can to others ,knowing he's going to fail at both much of the time. That's why they age so much in office.
 
Just ask the rest of the world: the United States is viewed as an enormous threat to world peace. The POTUS is a position that makes so many life-and-death decisions because it is a position that can too easily exercise military power. And I'd turn the accusation around: anyone who thinks our military interventionism benefits the average Joe is naive.
 
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