2024 Pre-Election Political Polls | POLL - Trump would have had 7 point lead over Biden

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breepf said:
I think we’re just arguing for different definitions of decency. I thought the fundamental indecency of the American public was evident once it re-elected George W Bush.
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I'm not arguing whether America is decent or not. I was analyzing why a large majority of liberals found the 2016 election so shocking. You are certainly welcome to argue that they were mistaken and that we've never been decent, but that doesn't change my analysis of the 2016 election or the liberal response to it.
 
HeelYeah2012 said:
You don’t truly think the violence from pissed off sore losers will only occur if Harris wins, do you? Half the country is pushing a narrative that a Trump win is apocalyptic even though he’s already been president for 4 years previously and we all survived. People will lose their ever loving minds if Trump wins.
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Voting for a man who has stated to Christian activists that non-religious people shouldn't have the right to vote, along with his VP nominee saying that childless people shouldn't have the right to vote either...that's apocalyptic to me.
 
SnoopRob said:
I think the big thing is that while many of us were aware of what a portion of our country believed and how they were willing to behave, 2016 was a shock because we believed that those folks were a distinct minority even in their own party. To have Republicans nominate Trump (although he only got a plurality of votes rather than a clear majority for most of the primaries) was bad, but then to have the country actually elect Trump made plain how many people were willing to support a terrible person for the highest office in our country. The 2016 election made it clear how far much of the country had gone in rejecting a modern, multicultural society that supports and uplifts all Americans.
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This is a great summary of the point I was trying to make.
 
HeelYeah2012 said:
I doubt it’ll come to this because I don’t think Trump will win, but I bet we’ll see violence a lot worse than 1/6/21 if Trump wins the election.
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There will not be. There will be a huge amount of disbelief and depression and an even larger amount of totally misplaced chest thumping.

There will also be a complete collapse of faith in the American system of governance by more than half of the country.

That doesn't mean there will be violence.

But it does mean that y'all will find out what it looks like when the dog catches the wheel of the van and you'll be mortified at what you brought onto us all even if you never admit to it. Donald Trump is a horribly vile human who embodies all the worst traits a person can have. That penchant coupled with the absolute terror of anyone in his party to rebuff him is a recipe for cataclysm in our governance. If you don't see that, then you're totally naive.

Ultimately the problem with Trump has never been Trump himself, it has been the complete abandonment of any principled stance by moderate conservatives. "You've got to stand for something or you'll fall for anything" comes to mind. Moderate conservatives don't stand for anything. There is quite literally no line that can be crossed regarding rights or treatment of people that will cause them to be introspective or pushback at this point. Sure, they will clutch their pearls and say "well i don't personally agree with THAT" but they won't do anything about it.

Ending abortion..."well i think personally it should be legal but it's not what motivates me"

Abolishing gay marriage..."well i don't have an issue with it but it's not important enough to change my vote"

Mass deportation..."well i think we need rational immigration but I can't really say it affects me"

And the list goes on, and on, and on.

Meanwhile, Trump is surrounded by absolute anarchists and firebreathers but no moderates can be bothered to push back on that.
 
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wmheel1287 said:
There will not be. There will be a huge amount of disbelief and depression and an even larger amount of totally misplaced chest thumping.

There will also be a complete collapse of faith in the American system of governance by more than half of the country.

That doesn't mean there will be violence.

But it does mean that y'all will find out what it looks like when the dog catches the wheel of the van and you'll be mortified at what you brought onto us all even if you never admit to it. Donald Trump is a horribly vile human who embodies all the worst traits a person can have. That penchant coupled with the absolute terror of anyone in his party to rebuff him is a recipe for cataclysm in our governance. If you don't see that, then you're totally naive.
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There's going to be violence either way, no matter who wins.
 
HeelYeah2012 said:
I doubt it’ll come to this because I don’t think Trump will win, but I bet we’ll see violence a lot worse than 1/6/21 if Trump wins the election.
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GTFOH with that bs. You're just dreaming up something in your head and probably hoping that it happens, so that you can continue to downplay J6 like you've done for almost 4 years now.

Got any ideas about how the Dems might try to steal the election if they lose? I'm guessing that a fake electors scheme, storming the Capitol to delay certification of the election, pressuring the VP to not certify the election results, numerous bogus lawsuits challenging the election results, asking a Secretary of State to find you enough votes to win... are all off the table since they are already played out.
 
HeelYeah2012 said:
You don’t truly think the violence from pissed off sore losers will only occur if Harris wins, do you? Half the country is pushing a narrative that a Trump win is apocalyptic even though he’s already been president for 4 years previously and we all survived. People will lose their ever loving minds if Trump wins.
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We survived the first four years of Trump due in part to his own incompetence and in part due to his own cabinet telling him to fuck off when he went too far off the rails. Hes now instituting a loyalty test for appointments because most of his cabinet from his previous administration has endorsed Harris either outright or tacitly by saying don’t vote for Trump. Seriously, when a guy’s own VP, Chief of Staff, SecDef, National Security Advisor, and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs (among many, many others) say the guy doesn’t belong in the West Wing, he should not be considered a serious or viable candidate.
 
Turd Ferguson said:
I have felt that way since 2016.
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Red
HeelYeah2012 said:
You don’t truly think the violence from pissed off sore losers will only occur if Harris wins, do you? Half the country is pushing a narrative that a Trump win is apocalyptic even though he’s already been president for 4 years previously and we all survived. People will lose their ever loving minds if Trump wins.
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JFC we live in two different realities.
 
HeelYeah2012 said:
You don’t truly think the violence from pissed off sore losers will only occur if Harris wins, do you? Half the country is pushing a narrative that a Trump win is apocalyptic even though he’s already been president for 4 years previously and we all survived. People will lose their ever loving minds if Trump wins.
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Why wouldn't we be? He's obviously lost his mind and is calling for all sorts of violations of the laws of the U.S., humanity and God. If you won't be horrified , you essentially have to have no faith in America and no belief in any of the tenets of democracy. His first term was pretty bad and that was before he completely jumped the shark.

As far as the violence goes, there is only one party (not individuals, one party. Get that in your head.) that routinely is calling for it, encouraging it and hold as heroes the people who used it on January 6th. Is this who and what you support? Yes I expect there would be protests and people in the street if Harris loses. And I expect that Trump will already have storm troopers on tap. I don't expect Harris to try to subvert the vote and/or organize an insurrection like a younger, saner Trump did a few years ago.
 
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I see polling is sliding back to Trump somewhat. Not surprised that the magic of Harris being NEW is wearing off.

Trump's the carnival barking fraud that our founding fathers were afraid of. No matter what, too many folks are going to believe in his magical cures.
 
David Plouffe was on Pod Save America and I know he is not a neutral voice, but in a nutshell he says this is a margin of error race; believes the public polling is not worth listening to; says he would rather be "us than them;" and "our internal polling points to hidden support among anti-Trump Republicans. "
 
For me, Harris 270-268 is a terrible scenario…arguably worst case.

If Trump fairly gets 270+ it would be awful, but the will of the people will have spoken. If Harris gets 270 exactly it will go to the Courts, and I have no faith this SCOTUS will do the right thing…especially if one state can swing the results.

I say worst case because Harris will have fairly won, but it literally could be stolen. That’s when you could/would potentially see violence from the Left.
 
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