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2024 Presidential Election | ELECTION DAY 2024

  • Thread starter Thread starter nycfan
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  • Politics 
nycfan said:
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If Pelosi had her way, we would’ve had a disastrous “mini primary” and Gavin Newsom would be the nominee.

Pelosi wants Harris to govern from the center because that’s Pelosi’s politics. Americans aren’t “in the center.” Majorities of Americans believe we should have universal healthcare, a federal price gouging ban, a higher minimum wage, paid family leave.

Telling Harris she needs to govern from the center is Pelosi telling her she needs to continue deference to big business. I think Harris needs to follow the lead of the man who actually ensured she was the nominee: Joe Biden.
 
Paine said:
If Pelosi had her way, we would’ve had a disastrous “mini primary” and Gavin Newsom would be the nominee.

Pelosi wants Harris to govern from the center because that’s Pelosi’s politics. Americans aren’t “in the center.” Majorities of Americans believe we should have universal healthcare, a federal price gouging ban, a higher minimum wage, paid family leave.

Telling Harris she needs to govern from the center is Pelosi telling her she needs to continue deference to big business. I think Harris needs to follow the lead of the man who actually ensured she was the nominee: Joe Biden.
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Just out of curiosity, why do you think Pelosi's politics are governing from the center? Just because? Or because, in her ample experience that exceeds almost everyone in America today, governing and campaigning from the center is what has worked?

The problem with "majorities favor a higher minimum wage, etc." is that it doesn't matter. Unless people vote on that basis, which they don't, it's immaterial what they think about that issue. So when a politician says, "I'm for universal healthcare," that statement roughly translates to voters as "I'm really liberal." And then they don't want to vote for that candidate because they are too far left, even when they agree on the issue that sparked the characterization.

We see it on this board. If we take what HY says seriously, for instance, on the issues he's a moderate Dem. But he's also going on about how the Dems are so radical and he can't support them . . . even as he agrees, or says he does, with a lot of those policies.

It's sometimes hard for young educated people to fully understand how Americans vote. They don't vote on issues. They vote on feels. To the extent that issues matter, it's because it helps them define their feels. That's Trump's secret to success. He spouts utter nonsense all the time -- nonsense that has gotten so bad that it's impossible for any reasonable person even to engage with them. No, the 1890s were not the peak of the country's prosperity, and also the tariffs were not beloved. These ideas are just absurd. But they give MAGA great feels.

This is why the right-wing has to pretend that Trump is sent by God. They don't agree with him on any issue, and deep down they know his ideas are fucking idiotic. So they have labored to make him into something he's not, and it's all about the feels.
 
Damn...

I don't think I can vote for Kamala if she is planning to appoint Liz Cheney as her Secretary of Defense :mad:

www.rawstory.com

'Never occurred to me': J.D. Vance says why he thinks Cheneys endorsing Harris 'dangerous'

Sen. J.D. Vance (R-OH) on Monday floated the possibility that Vice President Kamala Harris would make former Rep. Liz Cheney (R-WY) her defense secretary should she be elected next month.Writing on X, Vance responded to a post from commentator Saagar Enjeti, who expressed fear that Harris would...
www.rawstory.com www.rawstory.com
 
heelinhell said:
Damn...

I don't think I can vote for Kamala if she is planning to appoint Liz Cheney as her Secretary of Defense :mad:

www.rawstory.com

'Never occurred to me': J.D. Vance says why he thinks Cheneys endorsing Harris 'dangerous'

Sen. J.D. Vance (R-OH) on Monday floated the possibility that Vice President Kamala Harris would make former Rep. Liz Cheney (R-WY) her defense secretary should she be elected next month.Writing on X, Vance responded to a post from commentator Saagar Enjeti, who expressed fear that Harris would...
www.rawstory.com www.rawstory.com
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I can guarantee you that she won’t do that. Vance is floating this because he knows it will turn off the Democratic base.
 
heelinhell said:
Damn...

I don't think I can vote for Kamala if she is planning to appoint Liz Cheney as her Secretary of Defense :mad:

www.rawstory.com

'Never occurred to me': J.D. Vance says why he thinks Cheneys endorsing Harris 'dangerous'

Sen. J.D. Vance (R-OH) on Monday floated the possibility that Vice President Kamala Harris would make former Rep. Liz Cheney (R-WY) her defense secretary should she be elected next month.Writing on X, Vance responded to a post from commentator Saagar Enjeti, who expressed fear that Harris would...
www.rawstory.com www.rawstory.com
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Don’t fall for Vance’s propaganda. Will never happen.
 
nycfan said:


CNN offers candidates individual town halls in lieu of debate
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This pisses me off.

Offering separate events to each party is a cop out.

Offer the airtime for a debate...

If both parties show up, you have a debate.

If only one party shows up, they get a town hall-style "1-person debate".

If no one shows up, we let Anderson Cooper talk for an hour and a half about whatever he wants.

If anyone wants to whine about it, they can go fuck themselves.
 
Paine said:
Americans aren’t “in the center.” Majorities of Americans believe we should have universal healthcare, a federal price gouging ban, a higher minimum wage, paid family leave.
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This may be a semantic/pedantic questions, but if the majority of Americans believe something doesn't that mean that the issues they believe in are the center? That's kind of a scary thought considering what so many maga voters (although hopefully they don't constitute a majority of all voters) believe...
 
hedge said:
This may be a semantic/pedantic questions, but if the majority of Americans believe something doesn't that mean that the issues they believe in are the center? That's kind of a scary thought considering what so many maga voters (although hopefully they don't constitute a majority of all voters) believe...
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Yeah, that’s kind of the point I’m trying to make as well, though didn’t do a very good job of it.

I think these arguments about “the center” are all motivated by the people making them. What does it mean to be in the center, like you say?

I doubt Pelosi would call Bernie Sanders a centrist, despite the fact that his proposals tended to garner the support of the majority of Americans. To Pelosi, being in the center is being friendly to business and not rocking the boat too much.

One man’s centrist is another man’s extremist based on how we’re defining it. I’m sure a lot of Trump supporters consider themselves moderates or centrists.

So, rhetorically, it’s useful for those of us on the left to shift the conversation to what the actual issues are that Americans agree on, rather than this mythical idea of centrism peddled by pols like Pelosi.

Kind of a rambling response, sorry about that lol.
 
hedge said:
This may be a semantic/pedantic questions, but if the majority of Americans believe something doesn't that mean that the issues they believe in are the center? That's kind of a scary thought considering what so many maga voters (although hopefully they don't constitute a majority of all voters) believe...
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In a word, "no".

If a majority of Americans believe that something should happen, it makes it popular but it doesn't make it inherently "in the center".

If the 95% of Americans supported a full-on christian nationalist theocracy it wouldn't make such a form of government centrist. It would make it popular, but it would continue to be extremist. It was be just as "extremist but not centrist" if 95% of Americans supported becoming an atheist communist authoritarian country, as well.

The "center" is roughly the area closest to the middle between the far poles of potential solutions with all solutions lying on a continuum between the two far poles.

Now, it is true that most people, including a lot of extremists, tend to think of their own views as being near the middle, but that's more of a perception problem than an issue of defining what is actually in the center.
 
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