2024 Presidential Election | ELECTION DAY 2024

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rodoheel said:
Anyone who thinks this won't potentially change some votes is naive. Don't try to assume that undecided or low-propensity voters act rationally. I hope it won't have a large effect, but to assume that it is irrelevant and can't matter at all is just the purest form of hopium. it's a stupid unforced error that Republicans will work hard to keep in the news cycle for the next week and is causing numerous campaign surrogates to have to spend time defending instead of focusing on message,
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Anyone who claims that they changed their vote because of Biden's mid-sentence stutter is a liar. I could walk out on my back porch and start screaming that aliens (the ET kind) just ate my brain and change more votes than Biden's stutter will.
 
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ZenMode said:
We'll never know for sure, but some believe that Hillary's "deplorables" comment contributed to her loss.
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No. What contributed to Hillary’s loss was that, 1. she was Hillary Clinton, the sole focus of the entire right wing media machine’s obsessive rage for three decades prior, 2. her campaign tried to run out the clock, and didn’t even attempt to campaign in midwestern states, and 3. Trump was then an outsider.

At the time, I personally voted against her for reasons number 1 and number 3.
 
CFordUNC said:
We are clearly going to have to agree to disagree. You really think that there are people out there who have been sitting around not planing to vote and/or not knowing for whom they will vote, but all of a sudden a guy who isn’t running for president makes some remark on a Zoom call about Trump supporters being garbage, and NOW they’re gonna go scampering to the polls, despite a guy who IS running for president having said some absolutely absurd shit himself every time he’s in front of cameras? You have a lot lower opinion of our electorate than even I do.
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First of all, I have a very low opinion of the electorate. Something like 80 million people are about to vote for Donald Trump. As I said: if you try to spend one minute inside the head of a low-propensity voter, or an "undecided" voter, you will go insane. You certainly will not find anything rational. Low-propensity voters are now heavily Trump leaning. Anything that risks turning out any of them who can barely muster the energy to vote is bad.

Second of all, even if you don't think the remark itself will directly change a single vote, it is going to divert a ton of campaign attention over the next week. Biden had to immediately backtrack from it. Walz has had to defend it. Josh Shapiro has had to defend it. Every major dem surrogate will be asked about it multiple times over the next few days. That is time and energy that should be spent on the messaging the campaign wants to get out. Instead it's spent explaining this away.

There is a reason Trumpworld is going into hyperdrive messaging over this. Of course they're craven hypocrites. Of course they're grievance politics grifters and grubbers whose attempts to appropriate victimhood for themselves and their supporters are laughable. Of course most normie voters will roll their eyes at this. But in a close election, at this stage of the game, anything that drives the campaign off message and into defensive mode is a bad thing. I'm not telling you to wring your hands about it over the next few days but refusing to acknowledge the possibility that it is a real thing that hurts the campaign is foolish.
 
rodoheel said:
First of all, I have a very low opinion of the electorate. Something like 80 million people are about to vote for Donald Trump. As I said: if you try to spend one minute inside the head of a low-propensity voter, or an "undecided" voter, you will go insane. You certainly will not find anything rational. Low-propensity voters are now heavily Trump leaning. Anything that risks turning out any of them who can barely muster the energy to vote is bad.

Second of all, even if you don't think the remark itself will directly change a single vote, it is going to divert a ton of campaign attention over the next week. Biden had to immediately backtrack from it. Walz has had to defend it. Josh Shapiro has had to defend it. Every major dem surrogate will be asked about it multiple times over the next few days. That is time and energy that should be spent on the messaging the campaign wants to get out. Instead it's spent explaining this away.

There is a reason Trumpworld is going into hyperdrive messaging over this. Of course they're craven hypocrites. Of course they're grievance politics grifters and grubbers whose attempts to appropriate victimhood for themselves and their supporters are laughable. Of course most normie voters will roll their eyes at this. But in a close election, at this stage of the game, anything that drives the campaign off message and into defensive mode is a bad thing. I'm not telling you to wring your hands about it over the next few days but refusing to acknowledge the possibility that it is a real thing that hurts the campaign is foolish.
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Understood. I guess I am foolish, then, because I don’t even think we’ll- and by ‘we’ I mean normal, non-brain-addled MAGAs- be talking about it 24 hours from now, because 1. all Harris and her campaign surrogates have to do is to give the exact answer she gave that I shared above, and 2. there was certainly be some other MAJOR BREAKING NEWSWORTHY!!! occurrence or utterance that will cause a whole fresh new wage of performative pearl clutching.
 
rodoheel said:
First of all, I have a very low opinion of the electorate. Something like 80 million people are about to vote for Donald Trump. As I said: if you try to spend one minute inside the head of a low-propensity voter, or an "undecided" voter, you will go insane. You certainly will not find anything rational. Low-propensity voters are now heavily Trump leaning. Anything that risks turning out any of them who can barely muster the energy to vote is bad.

Second of all, even if you don't think the remark itself will directly change a single vote, it is going to divert a ton of campaign attention over the next week. Biden had to immediately backtrack from it. Walz has had to defend it. Josh Shapiro has had to defend it. Every major dem surrogate will be asked about it multiple times over the next few days. That is time and energy that should be spent on the messaging the campaign wants to get out. Instead it's spent explaining this away.

There is a reason Trumpworld is going into hyperdrive messaging over this. Of course they're craven hypocrites. Of course they're grievance politics grifters and grubbers whose attempts to appropriate victimhood for themselves and their supporters are laughable. Of course most normie voters will roll their eyes at this. But in a close election, at this stage of the game, anything that drives the campaign off message and into defensive mode is a bad thing. I'm not telling you to wring your hands about it over the next few days but refusing to acknowledge the possibility that it is a real thing that hurts the campaign is foolish.
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I still believe the more they focus on it, the more attention it will draw to their own hypocrisy. I really don't care about the voters we lose over this. I expect to gain more. If the truth be known, anybody who can be chased off by this remark in context of the campaign that has been waged by the victims can KMA and go somewhere else.
 
CFordUNC said:
Understood. I guess I am foolish, then, because I don’t even think we’ll- and by ‘we’ I mean normal, non-brain-addled MAGAs- be talking about it 24 hours from now, because 1. all Harris and her campaign surrogates have to do is to give the exact answer she gave that I shared above, and 2. there was certainly be some other MAJOR BREAKING NEWSWORTHY!!! occurrence or utterance that will cause a whole fresh new wage of performative pearl clutching.
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Trump's assassination lasted 48 hours. Who wants to wager that pivotal headline against the longevity of this "gaffe"?
 
We can make a trade with the Trump campaign. We’ll take all of the people offended by Trump calling America a garbage can, or Trump admiring Hitler, or Trump openly fellating foreign adversaries and dictators daily, or Trump calling immigrants vermin, or Trump being an accused pedophilic pussy grabbing braggart, or Trump bragging about being the reason Roe was reversed, or Trump bragging about ending Obamacare.

The Trump campaign can take all of the people offended by Biden’s gaffe about Trump supoorters being garbage.

We’ll take that trade and win the EC by 100.
 
finesse said:
I still believe the more they focus on it, the more attention it will draw to their own hypocrisy. I really don't care about the voters we lose over this. I expect to gain more. If the truth be known, anybody who can be chased off by this remark in context of the campaign that has been waged by the victims can KMA and go somewhere else.
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Yeah see I just fundamentally disagree with that last sentence. Any voter "chased away" (or more likely chased to the polls to vote for Trump) at this stage by an unforced error is a problem. I'm not concerned with morals at this point. I'm solely concerned with winning the election. I will happily join in your sentiment that anyone "who can be chased off by this remark in context of the campaign that has been waged by the victims" is a fool and worthy of contempt, but a lost vote is a lost vote. I don't care about a damn thing other than winning right now. The goal is to turn out every single vote possible for Harris and not aid the Trump campaign in turning out a single vote for their candidate. We can do all the scorning of MAGA we want after the election.
 
UNCatTech said:
Post the address.

I'll be wearing Tar Heel and Kamala regalia. 😁
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CFordUNC said:
Trump: “Kamala Harris is a nasty, dumb, low IQ skank who blew her way to the top and has pimp handlers and she’s really not even Black. I also think that Hitler did good things, immigrants have dirty genes and are poisoning our country, liberals are human vermin and are the enemy within on whom I plan to sic the American military when I win. And no, I absolutely will not denounce the hateful Nazi rhetoric from my MSG rally the other night because there were many fine Nazis on both sides and besides I agree with them.”

Biden: “Trump supporters are garbage.”

Republicans:

Sad Anthony Anderson GIF
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I'm gonna steal this. haha
 
CFordUNC said:
We can make a trade with the Trump campaign. We’ll take all of the people offended by Trump calling America a garbage can, or Trump admiring Hitler, or Trump openly fellating foreign adversaries and dictators daily, or Trump calling immigrants vermin, or Trump being an accused pedophilic pussy grabbing braggart, or Trump bragging about being the reason Roe was reversed, or Trump bragging about ending Obamacare.

The Trump campaign can take all of the people offended by Biden’s gaffe about Trump supoorters being garbage.

We’ll take that trade and win the EC by 100.
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You are basically making my point for me. The point is we didn't need to make a trade at all. Everyone in your first paragraph was already voting for Harris! Even if the "trade" is 10 million people in the first bucket and 100 in the second, it's still 100 votes that didn't need to be lost.

This should not be a controversial statement: an unforced error by the Dem campaign that causes the campaign to divert even one second of attention and effort at this stage of the campaign is a bad thing. We can dispute all we want how impactful of a bad thing it will be and never convince each other because there will be no way to prove it. It could be that this bad thing ultimately doesn't matter. But I don't think it's helpful or reasonable to try to pretend that it literally doesn't matter at all.
 
CallMeTyler said:
When does it become politically correct to start lancing the MAGA boil? I'm ready to be a shithead to the shitheads.
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I don't know what the right answer is, but the right time obviously isn't the week before the election. And I'm not convinced "being a shithead to the shitheads" is the way to "lance the MAGA boil" anyway, even though it would make all of us feel better.
 
rodoheel said:
You are basically making my point for me. The point is we didn't need to make a trade at all. Everyone in your first paragraph was already voting for Harris! Even if the "trade" is 10 million people in the first bucket and 100 in the second, it's still 100 votes that didn't need to be lost.

This should not be a controversial statement: an unforced error by the Dem campaign that causes the campaign to divert even one second of attention and effort at this stage of the campaign is a bad thing. We can dispute all we want how impactful of a bad thing it will be and never convince each other because there will be no way to prove it. It could be that this bad thing ultimately doesn't matter. But I don't think it's helpful or reasonable to try to pretend that it literally doesn't matter at all.
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I take your contention to be that “this is a bad thing that could cost Harris the election” and my contention is “this is a dumb thing that ultimately won’t even be remembered a day from now, and isn’t going to be some impetus that prevents the Democrats from successfully closing what has already been a successful campaign, no matter how loudly MAGA Twitter screams and cries or how much Democratic Twitter hyperventilates with anxiety.”
 
rodoheel said:
I don't know what the right answer is, but the right time obviously isn't the week before the election. And I'm not convinced "being a shithead to the shitheads" is the way to "lance the MAGA boil" anyway, even though it would make all of us feel better.
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Step away from the ledge, do some breathing exercises, and then return to this thread. Harping on Biden's comment is going to accomplish nothing. You've made your point. Some agree, and some disagree. But I think that most would agree that your concern over the comment has run its course.
 
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