2024 Presidential Election | ELECTION DAY 2024

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HY2012 is such a confusing person - he says he's mostly voting for Democrats statewide in North Carolina which I'm very thankful for - but he's pretty much all in on Trump - even if you think Harris will be too liberal she most likely will have to govern with a divided government - it's very possible that the Republicans will control the Senate and the house during her presidency assuming she wins
He recognizes the positive traits of Jeff Jackson, Stein, Cooper, etc. and seems opposed to Mark Robinson. Yet, on the national scale, fails to similarly oppose Trump even though he is a white rich version of Robinson. Trump will propose something completely ridiculous, and HY2012's response is to just not believe his clearly stated position.
 
Strongly disagree that he’s one of the worst people alive today.

Simply put, I trust Trump on the economy and on immigration more than I do Harris. Those 2 issues are core issues for me whereas other stuff is more secondary. I’m pro choice and generally pro gun reform, so it’s not like I’m a huge pro-life or 2nd amendment single issue voter. As far as foreign policy, I’m more of an isolationalist in the sense that I think the United States often gets taken advantage of in some of the alliances we are in.

This package of beliefs leads me to vote for Democrats in some races - for instance, the NC governor’s race has nothing to do with immigration (where national Dems are a total disaster) or foreign policy - two issues I side with Republicans on - but it does have a lot to do with abortion (where I’m pro choice) now that Roe has been overturned.
I appreciate your response. And I figured it had to do w/the "Trump economic policy" thing but for the first year or so at least, he rode the wave of what was already in place. You can't buy an antique car from a person who meticulously restored it and cared for it and kept it in a climate-controlled garage under a slipcover and then claim that you're responsible for the state of the car. You can claim ownership/stewardship of it from that point, but you cannot take credit for its condition. However, if over a couple/few years you leave it out in the rain, don't protect it, and drive it off-road, even though perhaps you keep the interior clean, then the responsibility for the resulting state of the car is squarely yours.

Have you actually looked at 1) what he did economically while in office and 2) what he's saying he's going to do if he's re-elected? Unless you're a very wealthy person - and I doubt you are if you are complaining about the cost of groceries, but I'm okay with giving you the BoD if you claim otherwise - favoring Trump's economic policies just doesn't square with the reality that you and I live every day. Will his proposed across-the-board tariffs on imports make things better for you? Will his corporate and wealthy-person-oriented tax cuts improve your portfolio? I'm not saying Dems are perfect, but we know the Pub playbook by heart now - tax cuts for the rich and corporations, appoint Pub judges (hopefully to SCOTUS), loosen gun control (literally the 1st thing Trump did in 2017), and try to cut any so-called "entitlements" programs.

As for immigration - did you actually read an extract of what was in the bill that Trump ordered to be killed, and like obedient sycophant lapdogs, even though many of them were seething about it, the Pubs did just that? This is a great summary of its provisions: https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/research/analysis-senate-border-bill

Screen-scraping the bullet-points from that page, this is what was in the bill (NOT popular with progressive Dems, BTW):
1. A “Border Emergency Authority” Adding a New, Restrictive, and Opaque Process until Border Crossings Reach Very Low Levels
2. A Quicker, More Restrictive Non-Custodial Asylum Process for Border Entrants
3. Changes to Detention and Alternatives to Detention
4. A Path to Citizenship for Afghan Evacuees and Allies
5. The First Increases to Legal Immigration Since 1990
6. Congressional Funding for Asylum Officers and Lawyers for Kids


Isn't Trump ordering it to be killed so he could use it as a campaign issue - and your party falling in line and doing exactly that without any kind of discussion - strike you as patently disingenuous and reckless for people who claim they actually want to do something about immigration? You're correct that there is plenty of blame to go around (and in my view, the same all-encompassing blame as the gross neglect of our national education system), but you can't claim the Dems did nothing this time around.

I think the first sentence though - that you disagree that he's one of the worst people in the world - is much more telling than any of your stated policy positions. Why exactly do you think maybe he's not such a bad guy after all? Do you feel he doesn't deserve the character or other criticism he gets? Presumably you are also a Christian - does it not concern you that he claims to not ask for forgiveness and his favorite part of the Bible is "all of it?"
 
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Is this an example of a “good faith” or “bad faith” poast?
100% in good faith my brother! As school teachers, both my wife and I saw this first hand in the classrooms, community and in the homes of parents and students alike. Have faith brothers!
 
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“…
Vance's speech, on the other hand, wasn't just underwhelming but a little uncanny. Despite using room dividers to shrink the space, the campaign could not hide that the crowd felt like a medium-sized wedding, albeit a pathetic one where no one cares for the couple. Vance, perhaps recognizing charisma isn't his strong suit, spoke briefly before bringing up a series of local citizens ready to blame Mexicans for their familial tragedies of drug addiction. He spoke for a couple more minutes, before taking the reporters' questions about cat ladies.

Even in his short speech, it seemed Vance — like the Trump campaign overall — is still struggling to accept that they are running against Harris and not President Joe Biden. It felt like the speechwriter had typed Ctrl-F "Biden" and replaced every instance with "Harris," whether it made sense or not. Vance accused Harris of hiding from the press with a "basement campaign." Never mind that Harris is now the young and spry candidate who can keep up with an aggressive schedule, while Trump is the tired old man who can barely campaign between naps. …”


OMG, reminds me of this classic WKRP moment:

 
I think it was always inevitable after the party unconditionally surrendered to Trump in 2016 – remember Lindsey Graham saying that if the GOP nominated Trump that it would get destroyed and deservedly so? – but it has still been really remarkable to see the complete and total collapse of GOP policy on almost everything from immigration, to foreign policy, and everything in between.

It used to be that you could count on the GOP to be the party of law and order, but then they nominated a convicted felon who openly announces his intent to pardon all of the other convicted felons who were put behind bars for beating the shit out of “the blue” on January 6.

It used to be that you could count on the GOP to be the party of support the troops, but then they nominated a guy who disparaged prisoners of war, Gold Star and Purple Heart families, called American soldiers “suckers and losers” forgiving their lives on the battlefield in defense of our freedom, and refused to go to the American cemetery at Normandy on a day that it was raining because it would mess up his hair.

It used to be that you could count on the GOP to be the party that talked the talk and walked the walk on being tough on Russia, but now they nominated a guy who openly performs fellatio on Vladimir Putin in front of the entire world.

It used to be that you could count on the GOP to advocate for supporting our democratic allies abroad through military and financial aid, but now they have nominated a ticket that expresses an open desire to surrender Ukraine to the Russians.

It used to be that you could count on the GOP to be the party of strong border security, but now they have nominated a guy who openly bragged that he single-handedly torpedoed the strongest by bipartisan immigration reform and border security legislation in decades.

It used to be that you could count on the GOP to be the party of individual responsibility and pull yourself up by the bootstraps, but now they have nominated a guy who has never taken personal responsibility or been held accountable for anything which he has ever done in his life yet still whines and cries and complains that he has been treated more unfairly than anyone in American history.

It used to be that you could count on the GOP to be the party of personal freedoms, but now the entire party wants the government to get all up in your wife or your girlfriend’s or your daughter’s vagina, or hang out in your bedroom while you have sex with another consenting adult of your choice.

I can’t think of anything more humiliating or embarrassing than to be a Republican trying to argue with a straight face that the current Republican Party is anything remotely resembling a classically conservative movement with classically conservative policy aims and goals.
Kate Winslet Crying GIF by The Academy Awards
 
I think it was always inevitable after the party unconditionally surrendered to Trump in 2016 – remember Lindsey Graham saying that if the GOP nominated Trump that it would get destroyed and deservedly so? – but it has still been really remarkable to see the complete and total collapse of GOP policy on almost everything from immigration, to foreign policy, and everything in between.

It used to be that you could count on the GOP to be the party of law and order, but then they nominated a convicted felon who openly announces his intent to pardon all of the other convicted felons who were put behind bars for beating the shit out of “the blue” on January 6.

It used to be that you could count on the GOP to be the party of support the troops, but then they nominated a guy who disparaged prisoners of war, Gold Star and Purple Heart families, called American soldiers “suckers and losers” forgiving their lives on the battlefield in defense of our freedom, and refused to go to the American cemetery at Normandy on a day that it was raining because it would mess up his hair.

It used to be that you could count on the GOP to be the party that talked the talk and walked the walk on being tough on Russia, but now they nominated a guy who openly performs fellatio on Vladimir Putin in front of the entire world.

It used to be that you could count on the GOP to advocate for supporting our democratic allies abroad through military and financial aid, but now they have nominated a ticket that expresses an open desire to surrender Ukraine to the Russians.

It used to be that you could count on the GOP to be the party of strong border security, but now they have nominated a guy who openly bragged that he single-handedly torpedoed the strongest by bipartisan immigration reform and border security legislation in decades.

It used to be that you could count on the GOP to be the party of individual responsibility and pull yourself up by the bootstraps, but now they have nominated a guy who has never taken personal responsibility or been held accountable for anything which he has ever done in his life yet still whines and cries and complains that he has been treated more unfairly than anyone in American history.

It used to be that you could count on the GOP to be the party of personal freedoms, but now the entire party wants the government to get all up in your wife or your girlfriend’s or your daughter’s vagina, or hang out in your bedroom while you have sex with another consenting adult of your choice.

I can’t think of anything more humiliating or embarrassing than to be a Republican trying to argue with a straight face that the current Republican Party is anything remotely resembling a classically conservative movement with classically conservative policy aims and goals.
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Trump is too old in a more general sense. No one 78 years old should have a job that demanding. But it’s totally a false equivalence to act like Trump and Biden are equally unfit mentally. The whole charade of covering up Biden’s decline was exposed on national television in the debate.

So yeah, I would much prefer have a younger candidate and I am not really a fan of Trump. But he’s 10x sharper than Biden, who is extremely feeble and can’t think on his feet at all.
Good God
 
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