2024 Presidential Election | ELECTION DAY 2024

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farce said:
"there is no in between you are either a patriot or a traitor to America."

Actually I agree with him about this. I just disagree with him on which side is the patriots and which side is the traitors. (Hint: MAGA are the traitors)
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I'm not sure I agree with either of you, but I suppose it depends on what one means by "patriot." When you're talking about 350 million people in a country, I tend to get very nervous about rhetoric like "you're on our side or you're a traitor." I don't think everyone one of the MAGA dingbats who supports Trump is a traitor. Some of them are, but most aren't. They may be deluded, or cruel, or just plain dumb, but that doesn't make them traitors.
 
rodoheel said:
I'm not sure I agree with either of you, but I suppose it depends on what one means by "patriot." When you're talking about 350 million people in a country, I tend to get very nervous about rhetoric like "you're on our side or you're a traitor." I don't think everyone one of the MAGA dingbats who supports Trump is a traitor. Some of them are, but most aren't. They may be deluded, or cruel, or just plain dumb, but that doesn't make them traitors.
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Of course it's a bit hyperbolic, but so was Trump.
 
I read this passage recent in a story about Trump and thought it relevant to our discussion here:

There are a lot of people out there who really want to punish other people, and who will indulge that fantasy until it is big enough to crowd out every other thing in and around them, but there are also people who aspire to something more than that. The former population will tend to think the latter secretly wants the same things they do, and hate them for not admitting it; the latter will hold the former in contempt, not just because of their backwards and shabby aspirations but because of how unappealing—how much smaller and more anxious and more spiteful—those desires have made them. That assessment is easy, less automatic than autonomic. It's the sort of decision that gets made in the same part of your brain that tells you not to eat a hot dog you see lying on the sidewalk

I think this well frames the election challenge for Democrats this cycle: there are many people who fall into the "latter" group described above who have traditionally been Republican or independent and have varying levels of concern about particular aspects of the Democrats' platform. But they are generally repulsed by the cruel, swaggering, hyper-online, trolling mindset that's embodied in the Trump campaign. Those people have to believe that whatever their policy disagreements with Democrats, it's better to make common cause with them than to grudgingly support Trump and has band of weirdo sycophants. IMO the future of our country (and maybe the entire world) rests in finding a way to defeat and move past this epidemic of grifting, trolling, blustering fools that Trump has launched so that the serious people can once again turn their attention to doing the actual business of government.
 
farce said:
Of course it's a bit hyperbolic, but so was Trump.
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Well, yeah, but my whole point is that the way to counter that "hyperbole" is to call it out as the dangerous and reductive BS it is, not to say "nuh uh YOU guys are the traitors."
 
rodoheel said:
HY2012 complaining about us calling Trump a threat to democracy, meanwhile Trump is out here openly publishing QAnon slogans (where we go one, we go all) and saying things like "there is no in between you are either a patriot or a traitor to America." Would love to see him defend that kind of rhetoric.
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Well, to be fair, Kamala does cackle, so same thing.
 
CallMeTyler said:
He’s not delusional. He supports all of those things.

People have to stop giving MAGA fanboys a pass.
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I actually think HY believes the tripe he posts. He thinks Trump won't attempt the garbage he spouts and if you think he will do it then you just have TDS. Most of the MAGA folks do support his dystopian view of the world, though, so I do agree with that.
 


Before the Capitol riot of January 6, 2021, “I knew Donald Trump’s mental imbalance. I had seen it up close. His denial and then delays when the Covid pandemic struck, his penchant for repeatedly stomping out of meetings, his foul mouth, his pounding on tables, his temper tantrums, his disrespect for our nation’s patriots, and his total separation from reality and actual events. His repeated, ridiculous insistence that he was the greatest of all time,” Pelosi wrote.

Pelosi also described how Trump’s staff members, such as Mark Meadows, Trump’s final chief of staff, allowed Trump to listen in “surreptitiously” on private meetings with congressional leaders, causing Pelosi to ban cell phones from her meeting rooms on Capitol Hill.
 
SmilingJack said:
Looks like my Remington 1100 but I have a grouse carved on the stock. Timmy just getting better and better.
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The man took the gun and held it in his hands. There was a raised center rib between the barrels and inlaid in gold the maker's name, London. There were two platinum bands in the patent breech and the locks and the hammers were chased with scrollwork cut deeply in the steel and there were partridges engraved at either end of the maker's name there. The purple barrels were welded up from triple skelps and the hammered iron and steel bore a watered figure like the markings of some alien and antique serpent, rare and beautiful and lethal, and the wood was figured with a deep red feather grain at the butt and held a small springloaded silver capbox in the toe.
 
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