Biorhythms for Wake Forest Game, 9 pm Tip

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stankeylegjones said:
No, saying that they haven’t done it yet but haven’t had to try to do it yet is not a negative. How could it possibly be a negative? What is a negative is that they have missed more than they have hit with transfers, three misses for every hit. They are going to have to do two things that they haven’t done yet: bring in several high impact transfers at once.

I still don’t see any contradictions and I have mentioned the three successes (two from last year, one from several years ago), so I don’t see any underselling of their portal work.
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What's the math on this 3:1? Saying guys brought in to be bench players or roster fillers are not exactly misses

Cade, Nance, Garcia were misses in that they were supposed to be high impact players and were not. Other than those 3? And really... look at those misses. A fringe NBA guy and a player currently averaging 20 & 8 in the BIG

Yes they need to bring in two pretty big impact players at positions they have not done so before and probably a quality bench player. There's nothing about past portal seasons that makes it any more/less likely to happen now
 
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Yeah, when you count roster filling and family scholarships (hey Shea Rush) our really successful scholarship recruits are probably close to the same as the portal.
 
Heelsandeers said:
What's the math on this 3:1? Saying guys brought in to be bench players or roster fillers are not exactly misses

Cade, Nance, Garcia were misses in that they were supposed to be high impact players and were not. Other than those 3? And really... look at those misses. A fringe NBA guy and a player currently averaging 20 & 8 in the BIG

Yes they need to bring in two pretty big impact players at positions they have not done so before and probably a quality bench player. There's nothing about past portal seasons that makes it any more/less likely to happen now
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good post.

you constantly see people yapping about various recruiting "misses" both from HS and the portal and often a bunch of the guys they name were never intended to be a big part of any rotation. pretty standard for the last 2-3 guys on the roster to be practice / culture / back bench players and if you can get a little something more out of them, so be it.

the 3 you named are the actual portal misses. and 2 of them are pretty damn good players, just not great fits for various reasons.
 
Heelsandeers said:
What's the math on this 3:1? Saying guys brought in to be bench players or roster fillers are not exactly misses

Cade, Nance, Garcia were misses in that they were supposed to be high impact players and were not. Other than those 3? And really... look at those misses. A fringe NBA guy and a player currently averaging 20 & 8 in the BIG

Yes they need to bring in two pretty big impact players at positions they have not done so before and probably a quality bench player. There's nothing about past portal seasons that makes it any more/less likely to happen now
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"There's nothing about past portal seasons that makes it any more/less likely to happen now." The past does give folks concern, and rightfully so. Ignoring this past portal season for now, out of all the transfers they've brought in, how many have contributed in a season-meaningful way? Three. And that is considering their projected roles on the team. I think they've brought in 10 total - that's how I got the ratio. Add that to the fact that they've never brought in several players who will be expected to contribute a lot, and it's natural that folks would be concerned.

Now, let's address this past offseason. HD/staff set out two goals for themselves - to get a starting big and a solid shooter. They failed to meet both of their goals. So, adding this into the above, I don't see how anyone can fault folks for being concerned about next year. Oh, and there's also the added bonus of HD/staff simply not being ready yet to lead UNC basketball on the court.
 
stankeylegjones said:
"There's nothing about past portal seasons that makes it any more/less likely to happen now." The past does give folks concern, and rightfully so. Ignoring this past portal season for now, out of all the transfers they've brought in, how many have contributed in a season-meaningful way? Three. And that is considering their projected roles on the team. I think they've brought in 10 total - that's how I got the ratio. Add that to the fact that they've never brought in several players who will be expected to contribute a lot, and it's natural that folks would be concerned.
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10 - 3 = 7 so still not 3:1

Again, at least several of those 7 are maybe crack the rotation guys, who cares

I'd also push back on Withers not fulfilling a projected role last year

stankeylegjones said:
Now, let's address this past offseason. HD/staff set out two goals for themselves - to get a starting big and a solid shooter. They failed to meet both of their goals. So, adding this into the above, I don't see how anyone can fault folks for being concerned about next year. Oh, and there's also the added bonus of HD/staff simply not being ready yet to lead UNC basketball on the court.
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In a vacuum you're correct. They didn't actually land a shooter but they landed who was considered the top shooting prospect in the portal, heavily recruited by other top programs

Sometimes players simply don't pan out and this is the true concern of the portal and recruiting in general. The best scouts and coaches miss from time to time. I have nothing specific on the scout of Cade but it's hardly a unique indictment of HD and staff

Not landing anything at the 4 or 5 was a major failure but without knowing how or why that occurred I can't get too worked up over the possibility of it happening again

Can't fault folks for concern, I just think it's misplaced. Worry about big $ SEC and BIG teams and what HD does with these players after he gets them (a different discussion entirely)

Every portal season is a crapshoot. Rolling a 12 last year has no bearing on the next roll
 
BillOfRights said:
Joel Berry's take on the Wake Forest game and this season's Carolina team. The issue is the players aren't performing.

247sports.com

Joel: Shot Making, Leadership Void, Reset Expectations

Joel: Shot Making, Leadership Void, Reset Expectations
247sports.com 247sports.com
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Who recruited those players?
Who is supposed to put them in a position to succeed?
Who is supposed to develop them into better players?

If the players are the problem, it's one of Hubert's creation and the end responsibility lies with him.

Based on this and the Theo/JJax/Ray podcast from a couple of days ago, it's pretty clear that the Hubert defense is "the blame lies with the players".

But what gets ignored is that Hubert selected these players, is responsible for developing these players, and is supposed to coach them to put them in positions to succeed.

It would also be a lot easier to stomach the idea that it's just a poor portal season or players not quite living up to the needed standard if this wasn't the second time this has happened in 4 years under Hubert.
 
Centerpiece said:
Yes, getting the Williams commit was huge and just took the heat under Coach Davis’ office chair down several notches.
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I hope that his seat is just as warm this morning as it was yesterday afternoon. One OAD recruit shouldn't make that big of a difference.

We're not performing up the standard of Carolina Basketball, the seat needs to be pretty danged warm at this point.
 
SnoopRob said:
Who recruited those players?
Who is supposed to put them in a position to succeed?
Who is supposed to develop them into better players?

If the players are the problem, it's one of Hubert's creation and the end responsibility lies with him.

Based on this and the Theo/JJax/Ray podcast from a couple of days ago, it's pretty clear that the Hubert defense is "the blame lies with the players".

But what gets ignored is that Hubert selected these players, is responsible for developing these players, and is supposed to coach them to put them in positions to succeed.

It would also be a lot easier to stomach the idea that it's just a poor portal season or players not quite living up to the needed standard if this wasn't the second time this has happened in 4 years under Hubert.
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Have you considered that Coach Davis has done his part and now it's on the players to produce? Berry even said they were missing open shots. It's not poor offense or poor coaching if they miss open shots. It's poor performance. Even if they're 23 or 24 years old, even if they're getting paid, they're still college kids. I'm not bashing the players, but the coaches can't put the ball in the basket.
 
Heelsandeers said:
10 - 3 = 7 so still not 3:1

Again, at least several of those 7 are maybe crack the rotation guys, who cares

I'd also push back on Withers not fulfilling a projected role last year



In a vacuum you're correct. They didn't actually land a shooter but they landed who was considered the top shooting prospect in the portal, heavily recruited by other top programs

Sometimes players simply don't pan out and this is the true concern of the portal and recruiting in general. The best scouts and coaches miss from time to time. I have nothing specific on the scout of Cade but it's hardly a unique indictment of HD and staff

Not landing anything at the 4 or 5 was a major failure but without knowing how or why that occurred I can't get too worked up over the possibility of it happening again

Can't fault folks for concern, I just think it's misplaced. Worry about big $ SEC and BIG teams and what HD does with these players after he gets them (a different discussion entirely)

Every portal season is a crapshoot. Rolling a 12 last year has no bearing on the next roll
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Addressing the ratio, this staff has brought in 12 transfers (I think I have them all): Claude, Tyson, Lubin, Okonkwo, Ingram, Withers, Wojcik, Ryan, McKoy, Nance, Garcia, Manek. Of those, I'd say that Manek, Ryan, Ingram were hits. 3:1.

On your second point, that's still a failure on the staff's part, imo. And, he's not playing because he's not shooting it well. He's not playing because his game (all around) is not close to being on a level compared to others in the ACC (which is a very weak conference this year).

As you mentioned, you can't fault folks for being concerned. I'm offering reasons for such concern. I think the biggest reason is that HD/staff have not show much to warrant faith in them going forward. I think many would feel definitely about next year if they had faith in the coaches. But, from everything we've seen, this staff is not ready yet to lead UNC basketball.
 
BillOfRights said:
Have you considered that Coach Davis has done his part and now it's on the players to produce? Berry even said they were missing open shots. It's not poor offense or poor coaching if they miss open shots. It's poor performance. Even if they're 23 or 24 years old, even if they're getting paid, they're still college kids. I'm not bashing the players, but the coaches can't put the ball in the basket.
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While we do miss some open shots, that's not the entire problem.

Our offense doesn't regularly put players in position to play to their strengths. And we pretty often throw the ball around the perimeter and/or pound the leather off of it before running a hurried play to get something up.

However, if we again have a team that has significant deficiencies, that's on Hubert. He recruited them, he signed them, he's responsible for developing them, and he's responsible for coaching them up during the game.

In short, as rough as the team is this year, there's no way that Hubert can have met the standard for having "done his part".
 
WaynetheDrain said:
I really needed this team to help me take my mind off of politics this year.

Thanks a bunch, Hubert. At this point, I may need to start paying more attention to Trump 2.0 just to stop thinking about UNC basketball.

Fuck this fucking bullshit. Fuck all of it.
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There are lots of pictures of animals and space on bluesky. :D

I'm in this same place. But it's saving me money since I can cancel YTTV.
 
Bigs23 said:
UNC football does not equal UNC basketball.
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When a team isn’t winning and underperforming it’s easy to place blame.
You can blame the coach and you’re probably right.

You can blame the players and you’re probably right.

I don’t however buy the idea that Hubert simply can’t coach. Just look back to last season for proof that he can.
 
Bigs23 said:
UNC football does not equal UNC basketball.
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Of course not. Has anyone said otherwise? The point is, if you are a person who donates a meaningful amount of money and you are convinced that coach/staff are not who should be in charge, then you are not going to invest more money into them. Mack/staff was an example of this. You most likely follow the same principles with your investments too. We all do.

But, it could be that those who make meaningful donations have faith in this staff and maybe they will up their funding.
 
Bigs23 said:
When a team isn’t winning and underperforming it’s easy to place blame.
You can blame the coach and you’re probably right.

You can blame the players and you’re probably right.

I don’t however buy the idea that Hubert simply can’t coach. Just look back to last season for proof that he can.
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It's less on the players and more, far more, on their instruction. That is obvious from watching their games. Don't try to blame the players please. These are the players he wanted, if they don't fit his schemes (whatever they may be) then he needs to change his schemes to fit the players that he wanted. Once again, don't try to put this on them. They are doing what HD/staff are instructing them to do, and HD/staff are getting what they allow.
 
stankeylegjones said:
It's less on the players and more, far more, on their instruction. That is obvious from watching their games. Don't try to blame the players please. These are the players he wanted, if they don't fit his schemes (whatever they may be) then he needs to change his schemes to fit the players that he wanted. Once again, don't try to put this on them. They are doing what HD/staff are instructing them to do, and HD/staff are getting what they allow.
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Players gotta produce.

Now that they are getting paid they can certainly take on their fair share of the blame.
 
SnoopRob said:
I hope that his seat is just as warm this morning as it was yesterday afternoon. One OAD recruit shouldn't make that big of a difference.

We're not performing up the standard of Carolina Basketball, the seat needs to be pretty danged warm at this point.
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Warm yes... down from almost too hot
 
stankeylegjones said:
It's less on the players and more, far more, on their instruction. That is obvious from watching their games. Don't try to blame the players please. These are the players he wanted, if they don't fit his schemes (whatever they may be) then he needs to change his schemes to fit the players that he wanted. Once again, don't try to put this on them. They are doing what HD/staff are instructing them to do, and HD/staff are getting what they allow.
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You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him knock down open shots.
 
Bigs23 said:
Players gotta produce.

Now that they are getting paid they can certainly take on their fair share of the blame.
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Sure, they definitely can. But, they don't share nearly the blame that you are putting on them. The vast majority of that blame lies on the shoulders of the head coach and staff.
 
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