Black enrollment at UNC drops after ruling. Group who sued now coming for Duke.

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“What is it that binds us to this place as no other? It is not the well or the bell or the stone walls. Or the crisp October nights or the memory of dogwoods blooming. Our loyalty is not only to William Richardson Davie, though we are proud of what he did 200 years ago today. Not even to Dean Smith, though we are proud of what he did last March. No, our love for this place is based on the fact that it is, as it was meant to be, the University of the people.”

Charles Kuralt
 
CRHeel94 said:
Did data for that come out at the trial?

In previous decades, Hispanics weren’t an admissions priority at UNC because they didn’t make up a significant portion of the state population. As that changed over time, the priority changed.
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Yes. I think the data came from the trial. This study was indicative but I don't believe it was the only one.

"Among new UNC students from North Carolina in the Classes of 2016 to 2021, African American and Latinx admits would fall by 864 and 273, respectively."

www.insidehighered.com

Study sees advantages for Black and Latinx applicants to Harvard, UNC

Study finds large advantages for Black and Latinx applicants to Harvard and University of North Carolina. Is it valid? Will this sway the Supreme Court?
www.insidehighered.com www.insidehighered.com
 
I find myself amazingly indifferent. I have four grandkids. One is white. One is half Chinese. The other two are multiracial. Their mother is the product of a marriage between a half black and half Native American woman and an El Salvadorean man who was mostly Hispanic.

You know that kid's church song about 'red and yellow, black and white". At the time it never occurred to me it was about my grandkids.
 
CRHeel94 said:
Did data for that come out at the trial?

In previous decades, Hispanics weren’t an admissions priority at UNC because they didn’t make up a significant portion of the state population. As that changed over time, the priority changed.
Click to expand...
This was my understanding though I did attend well before 2016. Nevertheless, the relatively minuscule drop in Hispanic numbers is interesting. It will be interesting to see if the reduction remains small.
 
gtyellowjacket said:
That is interesting. I would have thought they would have fallen too but it seems like they were getting in on merit alone. That's good news.

It seems like the only demographic that was getting a race based advantage is blacks and it was at the expense of Asians, at least at UNC based on this one year.
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On merit? Lol

outrageous.

That’s easy to claim when the acceptance criteria is systemically advantageous to white students.
 
gtyellowjacket said:
Yes. I think the data came from the trial. This study was indicative but I don't believe it was the only one.

"Among new UNC students from North Carolina in the Classes of 2016 to 2021, African American and Latinx admits would fall by 864 and 273, respectively."

www.insidehighered.com

Study sees advantages for Black and Latinx applicants to Harvard, UNC

Study finds large advantages for Black and Latinx applicants to Harvard and University of North Carolina. Is it valid? Will this sway the Supreme Court?
www.insidehighered.com www.insidehighered.com
Click to expand...

Went and took a look at the study, just trying to get a look at the Hispanic applicants. From reading the study (and if I understood it correctly), looks like Hispanic applicants got a bump...it also was pretty evident that the out-of-state Hispanic applicants were of pretty good quality (rated highly in the admission criteria of rigor and extracurriculars, a bit lower on average SATs...also t) as well as a higher representation of higher quartiles of income. The in-state Hispanics got a lower bump than out-of-state Hispanics, but were also not as qualified and had a higher share of lower quartiles of income.
 
CRHeel94 said:
Went and took a look at the study, just trying to get a look at the Hispanic applicants. From reading the study (and if I understood it correctly), looks like Hispanic applicants got a bump...it also was pretty evident that the out-of-state Hispanic applicants were of pretty good quality (rated highly in the admission criteria of rigor and extracurriculars, a bit lower on average SATs...also t) as well as a higher representation of higher quartiles of income. The in-state Hispanics got a lower bump than out-of-state Hispanics, but were also not as qualified and had a higher share of lower quartiles of income.
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Yeah. Out of state Hispanics got a bigger bump than in-state.

The really sad thing was the guys that did the research found that rich or middle class blacks and Hispanics got those bumps but if you were a poor black or Hispanic, you were less likely to get in than than white or Asian candidates. It was just a broken program and I'm glad they ended it.

I'm really wondering how Duke, Princeton and Yale saw reduced Asian admissions. Did less Asians apply because they thought they could get into other schools or did the schools change the criteria? And if they changed the criteria, are they adhering to the spirit of the ruling or is it still racist and open to lawsuits, or dod those schools give Asians a bump before the decision?
 
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gtyellowjacket said:
Yeah. Out of state Hispanics got a bigger bump than in-state.

The really sad thing was the guys that did the research found that rich or middle class blacks and Hispanics got those bumps but if you were a poor black or Hispanic, you were less likely to get in than than white or Asian candidates. It was just a broken program and I'm glad they ended it.

I'm really wondering how Duke, Princeton and Yale saw reduced Asian admissions. Did less Asians apply because they thought they could get into other schools or did the schools change the criteria? And if they changed the criteria, are they adhering to the spirit of the ruling or is it still racist and open to lawsuits, or dod those schools give Asians a bump before the decision?
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That “research” is flawed. It’s not the fault of the authors, but there are a lot of factors that go into admissions decisions - e.g. enrollment management, financial need and intended major - that they probably didn’t consider and for which they likely didn’t have data. I don’t have a problem with their methods, but they should have placed the results in the context of the serious limitations inherent in such an analysis.
 
BlooVooDoo said:
That “research” is flawed. It’s not the fault of the authors, but there are a lot of factors that go into admissions decisions - e.g. enrollment management, financial need and intended major - that they probably didn’t consider and for which they likely didn’t have data. I don’t have a problem with their methods, but they should have placed the results in the context of the serious limitations inherent in such an analysis.
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I saw the criticisms of the study but they seem pretty trite to me. We're not talking about blacks or Hispanics getting a percent or two bump that could be attributed to something else. I think blacks were something like 70 something percent more likely than a comparable white or Asian applicant to get admitted. I don't think we can attribute that to majors or enrollment management.
 
gtyellowjacket said:
The study I saw was the greatest predictor of attending college was family income although I'm sure there's tons of overlap there.
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I’ve seen the proportion of kids in your peer group that go to college. Basically, what neighborhood you grew up in. Hard to disambiguate these all.
 
So in summary UNC was 100% white for 150 years (whatever), Educational attainment of parents, Income of parents, Leagcy (all white) sustained this-until UNC decided to push things to look a little more like the State . Obviously a multigenerational effort needed to overcome Educational attainment/income
But GYellowjacket says that be racist.................................
 
mpaer said:
So in summary UNC was 100% white for 150 years (whatever), Educational attainment of parents, Income of parents, Leagcy (all white) sustained this-until UNC decided to push things to look a little more like the State . Obviously a multigenerational effort needed to overcome Educational attainment/income
But GYellowjacket says that be racist.................................
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I mean I and the USSC say its racist. The Supreme Court and I also agree that the pre 1955 policy of preventing black students from attending UNC was also racist.
 
Igs149 said:
I’ve seen the proportion of kids in your peer group that go to college. Basically, what neighborhood you grew up in. Hard to disambiguate these all.
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A parent or a mentor who can prepare you to succeed is a big boost to get you through. I'd guess that's true about getting you in.
 
Igs149 said:
Hard to disambiguate these all.
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Actually, no. The statistical tools to do so are well know and relatively elementary. Anytime you hear or read "controlling for..." that is precisely what they are doing. Like any other tool it can be misused (or even intentionally not used if you want to tell a certain story to begin with), but the tools are there and easy to use.
 
gtyellowjacket said:
I mean I and the USSC say its racist. The Supreme Court and I also agree that the pre 1955 policy of preventing black students from attending UNC was also racist.
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Whooollly different SCOTUS. One was fighting racism-the one today, well no Same clowns that brought us Citizens United , Orangeturd immunity from crimes-don't do Thurgood Marshall the disservice of comparing him to Clarence Thomas
 
mpaer said:
Whooollly different SCOTUS. One was fighting racism-the one today, well no Same clowns that brought us Citizens United , Orangeturd immunity from crimes-don't do Thurgood Marshall the disservice of comparing him to Clarence Thomas
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They were both fighting racism.
 
You have to admit it smacks of revanchism as so many of the Republican stances do.

I want what I stole back just doesn't seem exactly right. I certainly don't believe in reparations but not recognizing the tremendous head start given to white males in this country is ridiculous. Some sort of affirmative action should still be in effect. Granted, my focus would be similar to how the NC preschool subsidies when my wife was involved with them. The major focus was on poor kids of poorly educated parents on the theory that a kid who had never seen a book is a little more likely to have unreached potential. Maybe this can exist. You got to admit that a kid from that background competing for admissions against one from a private school who was able to get help prepping for the college boards just might not be losing on pure merit.
 
finesse said:
You have to admit it smacks of revanchism as so many of the Republican stances do.

I want what I stole back just doesn't seem exactly right. I certainly don't believe in reparations but not recognizing the tremendous head start given to white males in this country is ridiculous. Some sort of affirmative action should still be in effect. Granted, my focus would be similar to how the NC preschool subsidies when my wife was involved with them. The major focus was on poor kids of poorly educated parents on the theory that a kid who had never seen a book is a little more likely to have unreached potential. Maybe this can exist. You got to admit that a kid from that background competing for admissions against one from a private school who was able to get help prepping for the college boards just might not be losing on pure merit.
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I would agree. I'm for admissions policies that will tend to favor those from more difficult socioeconomic backgrounds. Base it off that and not race and I enthusiastically support.
 
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