College Basketball Thread 2024-25 Season (General)

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circlesky88 said:
The ACC is a shell of itself. After the first ten games of the ACC/SEC Challenge it is 9-1 with ACC teams losing some games by these margins: -15, -13, -23, -10, -26, -22, -21. The only saving grace was Clemson beating #4 Kentucky. If UNC and dook lose tonight that will be their 4th and 3rd losses respectively. Now all those losses would have been to top ranked teams except for our loss to Michigan State but they aren't a terrible team. Weird times.
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Do SEC basketball teams benefit from SEC football teams having better NIL packages? Is that what's going on here?
 
MOUNTAINH33L said:
Do SEC basketball teams benefit from SEC football teams having better NIL packages? Is that what's going on here?
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It’s not necessarily the NIL as much as it is the SEC’s media deals that are so astronomically head and shoulders better than the ACC’s, which means significantly more revenue to each school. Most of the SEC schools have way more money in ban they can even spend on football, so they can pour it into making their basketball, baseball, softball, etc. programs elite, too.
 
CFordUNC said:
It’s not necessarily the NIL as much as it is the SEC’s media deals that are so astronomically head and shoulders better than the ACC’s, which means significantly more revenue to each school. Most of the SEC schools have way more money in ban they can even spend on football, so they can pour it into making their basketball, baseball, softball, etc. programs elite, too.
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That makes sense. Thank you for clearing that up for me.
 
MOUNTAINH33L said:
That makes sense. Thank you for clearing that up for me.
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Of course! It’s definitely a bizarro world we live in now in college athletics. I was talking with some buddies last night, lamenting about how if you had told any of us even 10 years ago that the ACC would be 2-17 against the SEC in the first three weeks of a college basketball season, we would’ve had you committed. It’s staggering how swift the ACC’s descent and the SEC’s ascent has been.
 
The SEC and Big 10 are essentially the P2 now with their revenue advantages. This is especially true for football and men's basketball because money is more influential in those sports than the non revenue sports. Originally, I thought it would take at least a few years for those two conferences to separate themselves from the other P4/P5 conferences but changes to the college sports landscape, especially NIL, have really accelerated that process.
 
JCTarheel82 said:
The SEC and Big 10 are essentially the P2 now with their revenue advantages. This is especially true for football and men's basketball because money is more influential in those sports than the non revenue sports. Originally, I thought it would take at least a few years for those two conferences to separate themselves from the other P4/P5 conferences but changes to the college sports landscape, especially NIL, have really accelerated that process.
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The ACC should have seen it coming, too. UNC should have seen it coming and gotten out of the ACC years ago instead of signing a new deal to stay. The ACC and UNC were not proactive enough.
 
circlesky88 said:
The ACC is a shell of itself. After the first ten games of the ACC/SEC Challenge it is 9-1 with ACC teams losing some games by these margins: -15, -13, -23, -10, -26, -22, -21. The only saving grace was Clemson beating #4 Kentucky. If UNC and dook lose tonight that will be their 4th and 3rd losses respectively. Now all those losses would have been to top ranked teams except for our loss to Michigan State but they aren't a terrible team. Weird times.
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Fans have been in denial about the trajectory of the ACC because the conference has punched above its weight in the tournament the last few seasons. While it’s a fun story when teams like Miami, Clemson, and State go on surprising tournament runs, it still doesn’t change the big picture that the gap is only going to get wider between the ACC and the P2 leagues (especially the SEC) over time.
 
Kansas is down 10 to Creighton at the half. I assure you will see some adjustments from Self in the second half.
 
Turd Ferguson said:
The ACC should have seen it coming, too. UNC should have seen it coming and gotten out of the ACC years ago instead of signing a new deal to stay. The ACC and UNC were not proactive enough.
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The problem for the ACC isn't that they weren't proactive 10 or 15 years ago...it's that they didn't make the right choices 35 years ago when they focused on basketball (in the middle of basketball's renaissance - pro and college) and didn't recognize - along with nearly everyone else - that college football was the future of college athletics revenue.

If you want to castigate UNC for not getting out of the ACC over a decade ago when the media landscape was much different, you're welcome to do so. At that time, though, the differences in conference affiliation was much more limited and the effects of NIL were not really conceived, much less known.

I don't disagree that UNC is at a disadvantage being in the ACC, but a lot of the takes on what "the ACC should have done" is very much monday morning QB'ing with the benefit of hindsight. For a more contemporaneous perspective, see if you can find articles/comments online about Maryland leaving the ACC to join the B1G from 2014-2016 and how their fans weren't happy because they'd sold out for money. (Spoiler: A lot of Maryland fans were lamenting the loss of traditional rivals and a lot of ACC fans were making fun of them for it.)
 
heelinhell said:
It's going to be a painful season for us UNC fans...
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The good news is that the ACC is pretty bad, overall, so conference play might turn out to be pretty good for us (other than the dook games).

But we shouldn't have high expectations for the NCAAT unless something significant changes.
 
Looks like Duke is going to be carrying the ACC this year. Unfortunately, they’ll be ill-prepared for the NCAA tournament because they had to compete against a bunch of mid-majors in their conference.
 
SnoopRob said:
The problem for the ACC isn't that they weren't proactive 10 or 15 years ago...it's that they didn't make the right choices 35 years ago when they focused on basketball (in the middle of basketball's renaissance - pro and college) and didn't recognize - along with nearly everyone else - that college football was the future of college athletics revenue.

If you want to castigate UNC for not getting out of the ACC over a decade ago when the media landscape was much different, you're welcome to do so. At that time, though, the differences in conference affiliation was much more limited and the effects of NIL were not really conceived, much less known.

I don't disagree that UNC is at a disadvantage being in the ACC, but a lot of the takes on what "the ACC should have done" is very much monday morning QB'ing with the benefit of hindsight. For a more contemporaneous perspective, see if you can find articles/comments online about Maryland leaving the ACC to join the B1G from 2014-2016 and how their fans weren't happy because they'd sold out for money. (Spoiler: A lot of Maryland fans were lamenting the loss of traditional rivals and a lot of ACC fans were making fun of them for it.)
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This is an excellent point, and I would add to it that UNC has historically been a basketball school for 50 years. And part of what made UNC basketball so special was playing in the best conference anywhere. It wasn't only great in terms of talent and success -- it was the entire atmosphere of the conference. The ACC tournament. The rivalries.

Most of us would have been bitterly opposed to leaving the ACC in, say, 1995. I sure as hell would have been.

I think the unexpected factor in all of this was the complete abandonment of the entire purpose of conferences. The whole point of conferences was geographical compactness. It was to preserve regional rivalries; to prevent teams from having to fly all over the country to compete; to offer a balance between competing nationally and regionally.

The first ACC expansion was Florida St. A state contiguous with other ACC schools. Then Miami, same. It wasn't until the mid 2000s that the conference decided that maybe regionality could be expanded a bit -- but the attempt was made to at least preserve the tradition of the conference by adding other quality academic institutions like BC.

Meanwhile, some other conferences decided that TV revenue was all that mattered, and whether the new conference made any sense as a conference was irrelevant. Thus we get the Big 10 -- I mean, sure it's rich, but it can't be satisfying to fans (or players) to be traveling long distances to play teams nobody fucking cares about. Every time I see a story about PSU playing Nebraska in some sport, I feel bad for the fans who have to digest that shit. But then I remember L'Ville and even worse the teams that joined last year (who I refuse to remember out of general principle).

So I think the failure of foresight was not envisioning that college conferences were going to end up like NBA divisions -- mostly meaningless. And that's in part because ACC schools remained true -- at least to some degree -- to the idea of college sports as a complement to the educational experience of college (even if that complement was very large for the best players). Meanwhile, the SEC schools who have never given a flying fuck about academics ruined college sports for the rest of us.
 
To highlight the conference conversation: Tuesday night, a game score popped up on the ESPN ticker for Cal and Missouri, noting it was the ACC-SEC Challenge. Never mind Cal being in the ACC, I'm STILL not used to MO being in the SEC, event though it's apparently been 11 years now. It was truly five seconds of "What" until my feeble brain sorted it all out.
 
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