GOP & Policies toward/treatment of Transgender & other LGBTQ Americans

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Calheel said:
But aren’t you opposed to hormone treatment for minors? Or is that someone else?

So prepubescent would be before middle school, right? You don’t want boys in girls sports once they get older than 11?
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I am against it. I was talking more 'in theory' or college.

There's a current age where schools/sports leagues separate kids. That seems to work.
 
ZenMode said:
I'm not even totally opposed to males playing in female sports with sufficient hormone treatment. I think more research needs to be done on that. My guess is that will be the eventual compromise.
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It may shock you to know that this was pretty unproblematically what was done until the culture war right decided that trans people would be their next targets. The Olympics asked trans women to submit blood test results showing that their testosterone levels were at less than 15 ng/dL (well below the top end of normal for cis women, especially athletes) before they were allowed to compete. If every professional league adhered to this standard, trans people and those who support them would not have any problems.
ZenMode said:
I am against it. I was talking more 'in theory' or college.

There's a current age where schools/sports leagues separate kids. That seems to work.
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Based on the fact that we're having this conversation, it very clearly does not work. What do you think the goals of youth sports are? Why do they exist?
 
akillesheel said:
It may shock you to know that this was pretty unproblematically what was done until the culture war right decided that trans people would be their next targets. The Olympics asked trans women to submit blood test results showing that their testosterone levels were at less than 15 ng/dL (well below the top end of normal for cis women, especially athletes) before they were allowed to compete. If every professional league adhered to this standard, trans people and those who support them would not have any problems.

Based on the fact that we're having this conversation, it very clearly does not work. What do you think the goals of youth sports are? Why do they exist?
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To give ephebophiles something to do outside.
 
akillesheel said:
It may shock you to know that this was pretty unproblematically what was done until the culture war right decided that trans people would be their next targets. The Olympics asked trans women to submit blood test results showing that their testosterone levels were at less than 15 ng/dL (well below the top end of normal for cis women, especially athletes) before they were allowed to compete. If every professional league adhered to this standard, trans people and those who support them would not have any problems.
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My primary concern is public schools and universities. Private entities can do as they please and deal with any consequences.
akillesheel said:
Based on the fact that we're having this conversation, it very clearly does not work.
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My kids played sports, either through the city, private businesses or through public schools, as late as 8th grade I believe, and I don't recall having any issue with how boys and girls were/weren't combined.

This conversation is about allowing older males to play in female sports after they would have already been separated in the normal progression
akillesheel said:
What do you think the goals of youth sports are? Why do they exist?
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Depends a lot on where you draw the line for "youth", but there are varying goals depending on age and experience.
 
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ZenMode said:
My primary concern is public schools and universities. Private entities can do as they please and deal with any consequences.
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Why do you draw the line there? If you're worried about the ostensible harm done to female athletes by trans athletes in public schools, why wouldn't that extend to private entities?
 
hedge said:
Why do you draw the line there? If you're worried about the ostensible harm done to female athletes by trans athletes in public schools, why wouldn't that extend to private entities?
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I draw the line there because they're private entities. That's really about it. I don't believe they're obligated to prioritize fairness.
 
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ZenMode said:
I am against it. I was talking more 'in theory' or college.

There's a current age where schools/sports leagues separate kids. That seems to work.
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If you don’t start hormone therapy till 18, you would still have a genetic advantage. In any event, it would likely take two years of therapy to reduce testosterone to sufficiently low levels, so you'd really only be talking about two years of competition. That does not seem like a solution that would ever be implemented.
 
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I'm probably pretty left but it's more coincidence than doctrine. It's not something that much concerns me. Give me a shot of life, liberty and pursuit of happiness with a chaser of do unto others on the side and I don't give much of a damn about the political spectrum.
 
Calheel said:
If you don’t start hormone therapy till 18, you would still have a genetic advantage. In any event, it would likely take two years of therapy to reduce testosterone to sufficiently low levels, so you'd really only be talking about two years of competition. That does seem like a solution that would ever be implemented.
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I don't know how long hormone treatment takes. If your time frame is accurate, then puberty blockers may be the best solution. I'm not a big fan, but it's better than surgery.
 
ZenMode said:
I don't know how long hormone treatment takes. If your time frame is accurate, then puberty blockers may be the best solution. I'm not a big fan, but it's better than surgery.
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Unless you are considering the treatment or your child is considering treatment, you being a fan doesn't matter.
 
ZenMode said:
I don't know how long hormone treatment takes. If your time frame is accurate, then puberty blockers may be the best solution. I'm not a big fan, but it's better than surgery.
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Wait. You want to change your view on puberty blockers for the tens of thousands of kids across the US so that the 10 or so transgender athletes that eventually play in the NCAA have less of a competitive advantage?

Does that make any sense at all? You have 99.99% of the dog wagging the tippy tip of the dog's tail.
 
Calheel said:
Wait. You want to change your view on puberty blockers for the tens of thousands of kids across the US so that the 10 or so transgender athletes that eventually play in the NCAA have less of a competitive advantage?

Does that make any sense at all? You have 99.99% of the dog wagging the tippy tip of the dog's tail.
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I was against puberty blockers, but not looking to force that legally. I would support a legal ban on GAS until age 18.
 
Calheel said:
The government bans all sorts of things it believes are harmful to minors, including conversion therapy. If we are going to stop the government from being a nosy parent, there are a whole bunch of laws that we should be challenging.
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I'd say challenging any going against a committee of doctors' advice and the will of the parents.

You can add any barring mandatory sex education. Growing up ignorant does a hell of a lot more damage than anything to do with gender reassignment, especially if some of the ignorance and stupidity concerning that is mitigated. Same with any laws that even hint at the importance of religion to the wellbeing of the nation. I could go on. I thought it was the conservatives against the nanny government.
 
ZenMode said:
The government has an interest, if not responsibility, to protect children. That's why we have Child Protective Services or similar in each state.
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Interfering in medical and family decisions is not an area of their expertise and parent and physician participation relieves them of direct responsibility. There are already means to challenge either if the case for damages can be made. Blatant intrusion and a scattershot approach to a delicate situation is an act of lunacy. The government and the public has no vested interest here.
 
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