GOP & Policies toward/treatment of Transgender & other LGBTQ Americans

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ZenMode said:
I was very small in my early teens, but I wanted to play football for a private league (Pop Warner). I was easily the smallest male on the team, but I was 13

I agree that the appeal to tradition is not a valid reason to continue doing something. I also agree that the risk of injury is not big because most women's sports, and sports in general, aren't contact sports likely to result in injury.

The nuance for discussion begins at puberty. That is when males begin to develop in ways that give them a distinct physical advantage against females. is there a clear cut-off point? No. Your average 7th grade male may not have a distinct advantage against your average 7th grade female, but the more time goes on, the more males will have the advantage. It's a well documented, biological fact.

I don't want the federal government telling individual states/schools, etc how to do things, but a lack of acknowledgement doesn't mean males are suddenly not going to have an advantage in speed, strength and athleticism. Look at male vs female records beyond about 13 years old and you'll see the proof. Just watch a WNBA game compared to an NBA game... or a boys college game.... or a boys high school game. I'd wager a LOT of money that any of the top 10 boys High School boys teams would beat every WNBA team and it probably wouldn't be close.


We Thought Female Athletes Were Catching Up to Men, but They're Not

Across dozens of sports, women's world speed records consistently fall 10 percent short of men's records.
www.theatlantic.com www.theatlantic.com
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You keep making blanket statements that every man is stronger than every woman, it's simply not true.

That's another variable in calculating actual risk, instead of the emotional, lie feed, bullshit that the right has sold to America.

I had a friend in high-school that went undefeated in 4 years of high-school varsity wrestling, he was pretty good, but he was also very small, 40% of his matches were won by forfeit because the other school didn't have anyone in his weight class. His girlfriend was on the basketball team. She regularly beat him in basketball. There's no possible way, if he were trans, that he would make any difference on a girls team. BUT you keep telling us he would dominate simply because he was born male. Go figure.
 
ZenMode said:
I was very small in my early teens, but I wanted to play football for a private league (Pop Warner). I was easily the smallest male on the team, but I was 13

I agree that the appeal to tradition is not a valid reason to continue doing something. I also agree that the risk of injury is not big because most women's sports, and sports in general, aren't contact sports likely to result in injury.

The nuance for discussion begins at puberty. That is when males begin to develop in ways that give them a distinct physical advantage against females. is there a clear cut-off point? No. Your average 7th grade male may not have a distinct advantage against your average 7th grade female, but the more time goes on, the more males will have the advantage. It's a well documented, biological fact.

I don't want the federal government telling individual states/schools, etc how to do things, but a lack of acknowledgement doesn't mean males are suddenly not going to have an advantage in speed, strength and athleticism. Look at male vs female records beyond about 13 years old and you'll see the proof. Just watch a WNBA game compared to an NBA game... or a boys college game.... or a boys high school game. I'd wager a LOT of money that any of the top 10 boys High School boys teams would beat every WNBA team and it probably wouldn't be close.


We Thought Female Athletes Were Catching Up to Men, but They're Not

Across dozens of sports, women's world speed records consistently fall 10 percent short of men's records.
www.theatlantic.com www.theatlantic.com
Click to expand...
Your link is about records. Those settings records st the top of both groups. I guarantee that if you interlaced all of the records many women will have better times than many men. Not beating the to one percent doesn't prove your point.
 
ZenMode said:
I mentioned above that injury risk is not a huge issue because few women's sports involve significant physical collision between players. You're talking mostly about football and rugby. I don't believe either is a common female sport.
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Well I knew some women who played in a rugby league here in NYC back in the day, but I think the league was predominantly lesbian.

My point was that physical disparities are just a part of sports. At the college+ level, sure, I get it. But before then who cares? I had to play against guys who were a foot taller than me and had a significant weight difference. So what? Unless it's boxing/ wrestling, you don't get to pick a weight category.

Sometimes you have games where you dominate... sometimes you have games where you're dominated. That's part of sports as a kid. Teaches you how to win and lose. As far as I know, nobody was traumatized for life because the other team had a kid who was 6 inches taller than anybody on your team.

In other words, who cares if some person born male wants to compete in high school as a girl? Nobody is going to die over it. I had to go up against some serious gorillas I was sure were in their 20s... I was not traumatized for life by it.
 
UNCatTech said:
Your link is about records. Those settings records st the top of both groups. I guarantee that if you interlaced all of the records many women will have better times than many men. Not beating the to one percent doesn't prove your point.
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It's not just the 1%. The physical differences that created the differences at the highest levels still exist at lower levels. It's why, among other things, Lia Thomas was the 500th ranked male swimmer, but a top 50 female swimmer. It's why California, yes California, is piloting a new program to address the success of trans women in school track & field.
 
ZenMode said:
It's not just the 1%. The physical differences that created the differences at the highest levels still exist at lower levels. It's why, among other things, Lia Thomas was the 500th ranked male swimmer, but a top 50 female swimmer. It's why California, yes California, is piloting a new program to address the success of trans women in school track & field.
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Why is it unfair women had to compete against Lia, but totally ok they had to compete against the 49 women ranked above her who also were physically superior to them and Lia?
 
NYCBlueBlood said:
Why is it unfair women had to compete against Lia, but totally ok they had to compete against the 49 women ranked above her who also were physically superior to them and Lia?
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Would you support making all high school, college and pro sports co-ed?
 
ZenMode said:
It's not just the 1%. The physical differences that created the differences at the highest levels still exist at lower levels. It's why, among other things, Lia Thomas was the 500th ranked male swimmer, but a top 50 female swimmer. It's why California, yes California, is piloting a new program to address the success of trans women in school track & field.
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Your examples are so far below the one percent, since you don't seem to understand numbers, I give up, you just keep on being a proud bigot.
 
StrangePackage said:
Man is a gender term, not a biological term.
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Nonsense. Gender and Biological sex should align. The idea that they shouldn't is absurd. Male is Male. Female is Female, with the exception of those rare occasions where there are people born intersex or with some chromosomal genetic situation and a person at that point may need to try and figure some things out. If it's a clear biological male, they need to be for legal, athletic, and for the purposes of public spaces, a male. That doesn't mean if they want to dress up and be a female because they feel that on the inside, they can't do it on their own time. Have at it big guy! And same for females who had rather be a male. Once an adult, go ahead and take all the hormonal stuff you want. sew something on or chop it off, whatever, but you're still whatever your biological sex is.
 
UNCatTech said:
Yes
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If that were the case, by the time college came around, you'd have created a scenario where females would simply be unable to participate in some sports at many/most colleges. Females in professional basketball, pro golf and professional tennis would basically cease to exist.
 
EhringhausSouth said:
Nonsense. Gender and Biological sex should align. The idea that they shouldn't is absurd. Male is Male. Female is Female, with the exception of those rare occasions where there are people born intersex or with some chromosomal genetic situation and a person at that point may need to try and figure some things out. If it's a clear biological male, they need to be for legal, athletic, and for the purposes of public spaces, a male. That doesn't mean if they want to dress up and be a female because they feel that on the inside, they can't do it on their own time. Have at it big guy! And same for females who had rather be a male. Once an adult, go ahead and take all the hormonal stuff you want. sew something on or chop it off, whatever, but you're still whatever your biological sex is.
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Why does it matter?
 
NYCBlueBlood said:
Well I knew some women who played in a rugby league here in NYC back in the day, but I think the league was predominantly lesbian.

My point was that physical disparities are just a part of sports. At the college+ level, sure, I get it. But before then who cares? I had to play against guys who were a foot taller than me and had a significant weight difference. So what? Unless it's boxing/ wrestling, you don't get to pick a weight category.

Sometimes you have games where you dominate... sometimes you have games where you're dominated. That's part of sports as a kid. Teaches you how to win and lose. As far as I know, nobody was traumatized for life because the other team had a kid who was 6 inches taller than anybody on your team.

In other words, who cares if some person born male wants to compete in high school as a girl? Nobody is going to die over it. I had to go up against some serious gorillas I was sure were in their 20s... I was not traumatized for life by it.
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I mostly swam - so completely non-contact.

When I was 14, at the state championships, I made finals (Top 8) in 5-6 events. I remember going to the blocks for the 200 meter fly. I was the only one who wasn’t 5’8” or taller. I was 4’11”. I was the only one who hadn’t “shaved down” for the meet - no need to do so.

The 13-14 girls 200 fly final was just before us; all 8 of those girls were taller than my 4’11” self; 7 of them definitely outweighed me (none were fat).

The next year I aged up to the 15-and-over age group. I went on a growth spurt - I was now a towering 5’3”. I was still shorter than everyone I swam against. It is what it is.

If anyone wonders if height matters in swimming, Michael Phelps is 6’4”, Caleb Dressel is 6’3”, Ian Thorpe is 6’5”. Summer McIntosh is 5’8”. Katie Ledecky is 6’0”.
 
Bigs23 said:
Why does it matter?
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I don't believe for a minute that people like him are really OK with even adults choosing to do this, at least not without the government and society creating penalties for doing so. To cite just a few of the many examples at the state level, Tennessee has passed laws forbidding drag shows in public (not just for kids, but anywhere) and red states like Florida are forbidding any discussion of transgenders (or any LGBTQ-related issues) even in high schools and colleges, much less lower grades. It's extremely disingenuous to argue that the GOP's goal isn't to roll back the clock on all LGBTQ rights, including gay marriage rights (or as I've heard it said, just "return it to the states" like abortion). Going after transgenders in women's sports is simply one way of attacking the right of transgenders to a public existence, and limiting LGBTQ rights, period. And there's ample evidence of that.
 
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