GOP & Policies toward/treatment of Transgender & other LGBTQ Americans

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UNCatTech said:
Well you did answer.

I stand corrected, there are just over 8 billion.

I read a little contradiction in your acceptance of adult expression yet wanting to still have exclusions.

Public restrooms are the stupidest of the discriminations. No one truly knows who is in the stall beside them and I'm sure that all of us have been in unisex restrooms or in the restroom designated for the other "gender".

If you are so concerned about participating in a charade. I hope your kids are never truly bad at something they enjoy, wouldn't want to participate in the charade by not telling them they suck and should stop.

As for changing genders, at some point it will be reality from a biological stand point. We already know a plethora of ways to manipulate and change biology, and nature has provided examples.
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so you are predicting that one day, they will be able to take a person born male, then insert a set of ovaries and a uterus in there and he will be able to carry children? I'm not sure I can see that happening, but even if it did, it's still be a guy, that had an ovary and uterus transplant, even if the transplant worked.
 
EhringhausSouth said:
so you are predicting that one day, they will be able to take a person born male, then insert a set of ovaries and a uterus in there and he will be able to carry children? I'm not sure I can see that happening, but even if it did, it's still be a guy, that had an ovary and uterus transplant, even if the transplant worked.
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www.healthline.com

Can Men Get Pregnant? Outcomes for Trans and Cisgender Men

Men can and do become pregnant. Your reproductive organs and hormones may change what pregnancy looks like, but your gender isn’t a limiting factor.
www.healthline.com www.healthline.com
 
McAdooSmackinYou said:
Have you noticed that the people super consumed with regulating trans bodies could not give fewer fucks about keeping a dead bio woman alive to harvest a fetus? Where is the outrage over manipulation of the natural order of things in those cases?
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I mean....we, medically speaking, are generally focused on preserving life....or should be.
 
Mulberry Heel said:
All true, but the part about conservatives vastly exaggerating the numbers of transgenders (and LGBTQ people generally), as well as minorities like blacks is absolutely true. From listening to Trumpers the percentage of blacks in our population is at least twice what it actually is, the numbers of immigrants is probably two or three times what it actually is, and the percentage of LGBTQ people is probably a quarter to a third of the population, These people are paranoid and convinced that they are simply surrounded by enemies. And that fear and paranoia is used as a major reason for why they have to support people like Trump and violate constitutional norms and do terrible things and all the rest - they and their way of life is under siege and so going to any extreme to save it is justified, even it means subverting our democracy and stripping other people of their rights and causing enormous suffering and so on. They really have convinced themselves that their survival is at stake, and so it's either "them or us." And so here we are.
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Fear is the most essential part of the “selling fascism” kit. Except for fear, nobody would ever buy this BS.
 
UNCatTech said:
Do you believe in evolution?
Do you agree there are 9+ billion people on the earth.
Do you agree that no two of them are exactly the same?

Doesn't the simply probabilities and the potential evolution add up to the distinct possibility that trans people are exactly as they say they are?

Considering how many other species naturally transition, I don't understand why it is hard to believe.
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There's no doubt in my mind that gender dysphoria is real, just as eating disorders are real, arachnophobia is real, homosexuality is real, etc.

There's no doubt in my mind that there is a social aspect to much of the 2,000 genders trend we're seeing.

People should be permitted to live as they please as long as the way they choose to live doesn't negatively impact others.

Males competing in female sports is a clear example of how someone choosing to live negatively impacting others.
 
ZenMode said:
There's no doubt in my mind that gender dysphoria is real, just as eating disorders are real, arachnophobia is real, homosexuality is real, etc.

There's no doubt in my mind that there is a social aspect to much of the 2,000 genders trend we're seeing.

People should be permitted to live as they please as long as the way they choose to live doesn't negatively impact others.

Males competing in female sports is a clear example of how someone choosing to live negatively impacting others.
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by this token, simply winning at sports is negatively impacting others.

one's rights end where another's rights begin, not their comfort.
 
akillesheel said:
by this token, simply winning at sports is negatively impacting others.

one's rights end where another's rights begin, not their comfort.
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As a society, we have long recognized the importance, if not necessity, of separating males from females in sports around the time they hit puberty.

Males are males, regardless of what is going on in their brains that may make them believe otherwise. Males should compete against other males in sports.

It's a matter of fairness and safety, which is why we've been separating males and females for decades.
 
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ZenMode said:
There's no doubt in my mind that gender dysphoria is real, just as eating disorders are real, arachnophobia is real, homosexuality is real, etc.

There's no doubt in my mind that there is a social aspect to much of the 2,000 genders trend we're seeing.

People should be permitted to live as they please as long as the way they choose to live doesn't negatively impact others.

Males competing in female sports is a clear example of how someone choosing to live negatively impacting others.
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You were doing well until you made the probably wrong last statement. First it isn't an all of nothing situation so you're blanket system is wrong. Secondly if evaluation on individual merit the vast majority of Trans people in sports do not increase risk in participation or outcome. But you keep on posting as if your one in a million examples are not outliers.
 
ZenMode said:
As a society, we have long recognized the importance, if not necessity, of separating males from females in sports around the time they hit puberty.

Males are males, regardless of what is going on in their brains that may make them believe otherwise. Males should compete against other males in sports.

It's a matter of fairness and safety, which is why we've been separating males and females for decades.
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the appeal to tradition just does not work here, as has been shown again and again in this thread. "fairness" is a concept that is malleable to the point of meaninglessness all the research has shown that there's no increased risk of injury, nor increased severity of injury, with trans women playing in women's sports.

this conversation has some nuance when we're talking about college, pro, or Olympic participation, all of which had guidelines that the vast majority of people found acceptable for trans women's participation before the right-wing culture warriors decided to target trans people with zero-tolerance malice. but for high school and beforehand? it's as simple as girls wanting to play sports with their friends. if there was as much danger to fairness and health as you claim, there would be high schools all over the country with records set exclusively by trans women rather than the <10 examples that wingnuts keep pulling up.
 
akillesheel said:
the appeal to tradition just does not work here, as has been shown again and again in this thread. "fairness" is a concept that is malleable to the point of meaninglessness all the research has shown that there's no increased risk of injury, nor increased severity of injury, with trans women playing in women's sports.

this conversation has some nuance when we're talking about college, pro, or Olympic participation, all of which had guidelines that the vast majority of people found acceptable for trans women's participation before the right-wing culture warriors decided to target trans people with zero-tolerance malice. but for high school and beforehand? it's as simple as girls wanting to play sports with their friends. if there was as much danger to fairness and health as you claim, there would be high schools all over the country with records set exclusively by trans women rather than the <10 examples that wingnuts keep pulling up.
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Top ten way to destroy an idea or innovation: "That's how it's always been done ".
 
I have an experiment for those concerned with who's using our restrooms.

On your next trip to the John, take some paper and record the gender of each person in the toilet. Since no one can be trusted, you will need to ask for physical evidence and document said evidence. This will be simple, just ask each person in the toilet if you can take a picture of their genitals.

Please report back in a week if you encountered any of those trans people.
 
ZenMode said:
As a society, we have long recognized the importance, if not necessity, of separating males from females in sports around the time they hit puberty.

Males are males, regardless of what is going on in their brains that may make them believe otherwise. Males should compete against other males in sports.
Click to expand...

I was very small in my early teens, but I wanted to play football for a private league (Pop Warner). I was easily the smallest male on the team, but I was 13
akillesheel said:
the appeal to tradition just does not work here, as has been shown again and again in this thread. "fairness" is a concept that is malleable to the point of meaninglessness all the research has shown that there's no increased risk of injury, nor increased severity of injury, with trans women playing in women's sports.
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I agree that the appeal to tradition is not a valid reason to continue doing something. I also agree that the risk of injury is not big because most women's sports, and sports in general, aren't contact sports likely to result in injury.
akillesheel said:
this conversation has some nuance when we're talking about college, pro, or Olympic participation, all of which had guidelines that the vast majority of people found acceptable for trans women's participation before the right-wing culture warriors decided to target trans people with zero-tolerance malice. but for high school and beforehand? it's as simple as girls wanting to play sports with their friends. if there was as much danger to fairness and health as you claim, there would be high schools all over the country with records set exclusively by trans women rather than the <10 examples that wingnuts keep pulling up.
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The nuance for discussion begins at puberty. That is when males begin to develop in ways that give them a distinct physical advantage against females. is there a clear cut-off point? No. Your average 7th grade male may not have a distinct advantage against your average 7th grade female, but the more time goes on, the more males will have the advantage. It's a well documented, biological fact.

I don't want the federal government telling individual states/schools, etc how to do things, but a lack of acknowledgement doesn't mean males are suddenly not going to have an advantage in speed, strength and athleticism. Look at male vs female records beyond about 13 years old and you'll see the proof. Just watch a WNBA game compared to an NBA game... or a boys college game.... or a boys high school game. I'd wager a LOT of money that any of the top 10 boys High School boys teams would beat every WNBA team and it probably wouldn't be close.


We Thought Female Athletes Were Catching Up to Men, but They're Not

Across dozens of sports, women's world speed records consistently fall 10 percent short of men's records.
www.theatlantic.com www.theatlantic.com
 
ZenMode said:
I was very small in my early teens, but I wanted to play football for a private league (Pop Warner). I was easily the smallest male on the team, but I was 13

I agree that the appeal to tradition is not a valid reason to continue doing something. I also agree that the risk of injury is not big because most women's sports, and sports in general, aren't contact sports likely to result in injury.

The nuance for discussion begins at puberty. That is when males begin to develop in ways that give them a distinct physical advantage against females. is there a clear cut-off point? No. Your average 7th grade male may not have a distinct advantage against your average 7th grade female, but the more time goes on, the more males will have the advantage. It's a well documented, biological fact.

I don't want the federal government telling individual states/schools, etc how to do things, but a lack of acknowledgement doesn't mean males are suddenly not going to have an advantage in speed, strength and athleticism. Look at male vs female records beyond about 13 years old and you'll see the proof. Just watch a WNBA game compared to an NBA game... or a boys college game.... or a boys high school game. I'd wager a LOT of money that any of the top 10 boys High School boys teams would beat every WNBA team and it probably wouldn't be close.


We Thought Female Athletes Were Catching Up to Men, but They're Not

Across dozens of sports, women's world speed records consistently fall 10 percent short of men's records.
www.theatlantic.com www.theatlantic.com
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I'm a hobit sized guy. Most males have a physical advantage over me. Should I have been banned from playing on the high school boy's soccer team because I might get hurt? Would have sucked, since I was the starting center defender on varsity...
 
NYCBlueBlood said:
I'm a hobit sized guy. Most males have a physical advantage over me. Should I have been banned from playing on the high school boy's soccer team because I might get hurt? Would have sucked, since I was the starting center defender on varsity...
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I mentioned above that injury risk is not a huge issue because few women's sports involve significant physical collision between players. You're talking mostly about football and rugby. I don't believe either is a common female sport.
 
EhringhausSouth said:
So reading that, men do not become pregnant. I agree. It just isn't biologically possible.
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Quote from your previous post:

“so you are predicting that one day, they will be able to take a person born male, then insert a set of ovaries and a uterus in there and he will be able to carry children? I'm not sure I can see that happening…”

Well, per the article, it’s happening now.
 
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