GOP & Policies toward/treatment of Transgender & other LGBTQ Americans

[Healing]

@Rock Zen really needs a timeout.

Until he can post something original, all his post should be censored.

Self censor him. It’s a worthwhile discipline, imo. I don’t “Ignore” his pitiable, unworldly, and reactive posts but I have ingrained a functional ignore by habitually scrolling past the split second I see his avatar.

He’s a successful troll because he writes reasonably well, at least grammatically, which I’m convinced tricks folks into thinking he’s a reasonable interlocutor. Yet, his posts are predictable and cognitively static, despite terrible internal logic and accompanied with getting rhetorically switch whipped, time and time again.

His goal is your reaction. Starve him.

 

[superrific]

However, her point about invalidating the feelings of many to validate the feelings of the very, very few is accurate.

This logic defeats all civil rights. Guess what happened when black people got the right to vote in the South? There were a lot of feelings hurt -- a lot more feelings hurt than feelings validated, if statistics are to be believed. But mere popularity has never been the measure of our rights. Indeed, the whole point of the Bill of Rights was to protect individuals from the tyranny you are describing.

 

[ZenMode]

This logic defeats all civil rights. Guess what happened when black people got the right to vote in the South? There were a lot of feelings hurt -- a lot more feelings hurt than feelings validated, if statistics are to be believed. But mere popularity has never been the measure of our rights. Indeed, the whole point of the Bill of Rights was to protect individuals from the tyranny you are describing.

If You are talking about Constitutional rights, I absolutely agree. The government can't discriminate based on certain characteristics, so they can't rule over marriage, but disallow certain people from getting married.

If you are implying that there is a constitutional right for genetic males to play on genetic female sports teams, then we should just get rid of Title 9, make all public sports co-ed and have equal numbers of males and females on each team.

 

[UNCatTech]

Self censor him. It’s a worthwhile discipline, imo. I don’t “Ignore” his pitiable, unworldly, and reactive posts but I have ingrained a functional ignore by habitually scrolling past the split second I see his avatar.

He’s a successful troll because he writes reasonably well, at least grammatically, which I’m convinced tricks folks into thinking he’s a reasonable interlocutor. Yet, his posts are predictable and ever static, despite terrible internal logic accompanied by getting rhetorically switch whipped, time and time again.

His goal is your reaction. Starve him.

I know I need to.

I've had an extremely tough week and when I see him and silence with their normal repeated stances, sometimes it is just too much.

 

[superrific]

If You are talking about Constitutional rights, I absolutely agree.

I'm not, or certainly not primarily. Constitutional rights are merely one example. We don't believe that non-discrimination is a good principle because it's in the constitution; rather, it's in the constitution because it's the right way to run a society.

So there is not in fact a constitutional right to play on any sports team, and I'm quite confident that no court would extend principles of non-discrimination so far.

But that doesn't make what you're doing correct. Whether or not your position is better than the alternatives, your obsession is morally insupportable. There is no world in which a trivial issue that affects almost nobody's life (and when it does, it's hardly life or death) worthy of all this attention. That's what is wrong about your constant harping.

 

[ZenMode]

I'm not, or certainly not primarily. Constitutional rights are merely one example. We don't believe that non-discrimination is a good principle because it's in the constitution; rather, it's in the constitution because it's the right way to run a society.

I agree, which why certain activities are constitutionally protected and others aren't. The right to vote being a good example of a constitutionally protected activity.

So there is not in fact a constitutional right to play on any sports team, and I'm quite confident that no court would extend principles of non-discrimination so far.

Agree.

But that doesn't make what you're doing correct. Whether or not your position is better than the alternatives, your obsession is morally insupportable.

What is immoral about putting a priority on fairness based on science? Again, you, I and everyone here recognizes, and supports, the logic behind not having males in female sports.

There is no world in which a trivial issue that affects almost nobody's life (and when it does, it's hardly life or death) worthy of all this attention. That's what is wrong about your constant harping.

This reasoning is equally, if not more so, applicable when defending not allowing males in female sports.

If it's trivial and not a matter of life and death, then why not focus on fairness and science? Why prioritize the feelings of the very, very few when they are negatively impacting many?

 

[UNCatTech]

Again, you, I and everyone here recognizes, and supports, the logic behind not having males in female sports.

You, again, are wrong. You keep using the assumption that the weakest male is far stronger and greater than the best female. That's the only way your premise works.

There are some women that could probably play men's sports on their level. There are many women that are far stronger and more athletic in general than their male counterparts.

The risk is no greater from a trans woman than from a bigger stronger cis girl. As an example, I'm sure that Serena Williams would mop the floor with you and 90% of male tennis players in the world. She could probably beat your ass too.

But you keep pretending that your lies are correct and that any male is stronger, more athletic, greater player, and a greater risk, it seems you make you happy to be consistently wrong and you are good at it.

 

[1moretimeagain]

She’s also an idiot and totally incorrect with the point she was trying to make. A biological male would likely not do well in a women’s gymnastics competition.

You’re gonna want to careful on that balance beam, fellas.

 

[Zoo_View]

You’re gonna want to careful on that balance beam, fellas.

Same goes for the uneven bars……there’s a reason male gymnasts use the horizontal bar and not uneven bars.

 

[finesse]

You’re gonna want to careful on that balance beam, fellas.

Yeah, a careless slip wouldn't exactly be sidesplitting.

 

[ZenMode]

You, again, are wrong. You keep using the assumption that the weakest male is far stronger and greater than the best female. That's the only way your premise works.

There are some women that could probably play men's sports on their level. There are many women that are far stronger and more athletic in general than their male counterparts.

The risk is no greater from a trans woman than from a bigger stronger cis girl. As an example, I'm sure that Serena Williams would mop the floor with you and 90% of male tennis players in the world. She could probably beat your ass too.

But you keep pretending that your lies are correct and that any male is stronger, more athletic, greater player, and a greater risk, it seems you make you happy to be consistently wrong and you are good at it.

I brought this up to superrific, but he didn't respond.

Would you be okay with getting rid of Title IX, making all public school sports co-ed and having equal numbers of males and females on each team?

 

[UNCatTech]

I brought this up to superrific, but he didn't respond.

Would you be okay with getting rid of Title IX, making all public school sports co-ed and having equal numbers of males and females on each team?

I believe that is overly extreme for the very few trans female athletes.


So, would you admit that there is inherent risk in female sports even with just females playing? That there are different physical strength and athletic ability among girls? And, that it is not a given that a trans female will be the biggest and strongest on every team?

And an even better question, why do you keep fighting to take away an opportunity for a person who already has a very complicated life, to participate with the group that the person mentally identifies and is physically transitioning to be, knowing the importance of acceptance to everyone especially one that is in such a period of transition?

 

[ZenMode]

I believe that is overly extreme for the very few trans female athletes.

I'm not actually supporting that and I don't think most people would because it would be incredibly detrimental to female participation in sports.

So, would you admit that there is inherent risk in female sports even with just females playing? That there are different physical strength and athletic ability among girls? And, that it is not a given that a trans female will be the biggest and strongest on every team?

There is risk in female sports and significantly higher risk the more you add males into female sports.

And an even better question, why do you keep fighting to take away an opportunity for a person who already has a very complicated life, to participate with the group that the person mentally identifies and is physically transitioning to be, knowing the importance of acceptance to everyone especially one that is in such a period of transition?

I don't want to take opportunities away from anyone. I want males to play with other males because males have a significant advantage over females.

That's why a group of old guys can beat the women's national team in soccer....easily and the 1150th rank mail tennis player can beat the 57th ranked female tennis player.

 

[tarheelbillie]

I'm not actually supporting that and I don't think most people would because it would be incredibly detrimental to female participation in sports.

There is risk in female sports and significantly higher risk the more you add males into female sports.

I don't want to take opportunities away from anyone. I want males to play with other males because males have a significant advantage over females.

That's why a group of old guys can beat the women's national team in soccer....easily and the 1150th rank mail tennis player can beat the 57th ranked female tennis player.

Zen’ you need go to youtube and watch “Battle of the Sexes, exhibition tennis match between Billie Jean King and Bobby Riggs that took place in 1973”. Billie Jean beat Bobby Riggs in straight sets, 6–4, 6–3, 6–3. Billie Jean could have given any male a good match. BTW… to my knowledge the USPS doesn’t have tennis team. ;-)

 

[Zoo_View]

I'm not actually supporting that and I don't think most people would because it would be incredibly detrimental to female participation in sports.

There is risk in female sports and significantly higher risk the more you add males into female sports.

I don't want to take opportunities away from anyone. I want males to play with other males because males have a significant advantage over females.

That's why a group of old guys can beat the women's national team in soccer....easily and the 1150th rank mail tennis player can beat the 57th ranked female tennis player.

You should follow around a group of female high-level high school and/or college athletes.

The good females play pick-up with males ALL THE TIME! Anson Dorrance encouraged his teams at UNC to play pick-up and competitive off-season leagues with men.

UNC Women’s Soccer, Hoops, Volleyball, Lacrosse, etc. play tough male/female pick-up games year round.

It’s like NYC hoops….the best players are always looking for good games.

The idea that high school and college age women can’t play safely with comparably aged males is ludicrous.

Why I’m posting on this thread and giving a transphobic/homophobic prick a woody, I don’t know.

 

[ZenMode]

You should follow around a group of female high-level high school and/or college athletes.

The good females play pick-up with males ALL THE TIME! Anson Dorrance encouraged his teams at UNC to play pick-up and competitive off-season leagues with men.

UNC Women’s Soccer, Hoops, Volleyball, Lacrosse, etc. play tough male/female pick-up games year round.

It’s like NYC hoops….the best players are always looking for good games.

The idea that high school and college age women can’t play safely with comparably aged males is ludicrous.

Why I’m posting on this thread and giving a transphobic/homophobic prick a woody, I don’t know.

Of course. It's great for the female teams to play the male teams in just-for-fun, exhibition or pickup games. Competing against superior competition is a good way to measure your ability and improve. Ask any pro team how important it is to have the best available bench players for the starters to practice against.

I'll be honest, the fact that there is so much pushback on what is a widely known, biological reality is just baffling at this point.

It's not a coincidence that

• AB Hernandez finished in first or tied for first in every event she competed. It's not a coincidence that
• The 1145th ranked male tennis player, as a last minute substitution, beat The 57th range female tennis player.
• It's not a coincidence that an under 15 boys team beat the US women's team.
• It's not a coincidence that Lia Thomas was irrelevant in men's swimming and started winning against women.
• It's not a coincidence that Imane Khelif easily won the women's gold in boxing

And, it's not a coincidence that society is in nearly complete agreement that we NEED to have female sports (Title IX) and not co-ed as the best way to get females involved in sports.

Again, this isn't me pulling shit out of my ass. This is a known biological reality. Males have 40-60% more muscle mass and it gives them a clear advantage, which is why there isn't a single complaint or concern about trans MEN competing in male sports.

The only legit argument is "Well, there are so few trans women...who cares? You're making a big deal out of nothing!" My response is "It's nothing to you because you aren't the female losing your spot in the starting lineup. You aren't the female not making the team. You aren't the female missing out on the post season or coming in second when you should have won, or third when you would have come in 2nd. You aren't the female having your school records broken by a male."

Why are we prioritizing the feelings/experience of one over the feelings/experience of the many who are negatively impacted?

 

[UNCatTech]

I'm not actually supporting that and I don't think most people would because it would be incredibly detrimental to female participation in sports.

There is risk in female sports and significantly higher risk the more you add males into female sports.

I don't want to take opportunities away from anyone. I want males to play with other males because males have a significant advantage over females.

That's why a group of old guys can beat the women's national team in soccer....easily and the 1150th rank mail tennis player can beat the 57th ranked female tennis player.

You refuse to listen.

Your ASSUMPTION that ALL MALES have a SIGNIFICANT ADVANTAGE over ALL FEMALES, is INCORRECT. And it's the basis of your premise. It's the lie that the trumplican cult is selling and you have eagerly purchased.

 

[UNCatTech]

Zen’ you need go to youtube and watch “Battle of the Sexes, exhibition tennis match between Billie Jean King and Bobby Riggs that took place in 1973”. Billie Jean beat Bobby Riggs in straight sets, 6–4, 6–3, 6–3. Billie Jean could have given any male a good match. BTW… to my knowledge the USPS doesn’t have tennis team. ;-)

It's a waste of time, I've provided multiple examples to why his position is wrong.

 

[UNCatTech]

Of course. It's great for the female teams to play the male teams in just-for-fun, exhibition or pickup games. Competing against superior competition is a good way to measure your ability and improve. Ask any pro team how important it is to have the best available bench players for the starters to practice against.

I'll be honest, the fact that there is so much pushback on what is a widely known, biological reality is just baffling at this point.

It's not a coincidence that

• AB Hernandez finished in first or tied for first in every event she competed. It's not a coincidence that
• The 1145th ranked male tennis player, as a last minute substitution, beat The 57th range female tennis player.
• It's not a coincidence that an under 15 boys team beat the US women's team.
• It's not a coincidence that Lia Thomas was irrelevant in men's swimming and started winning against women.
• It's not a coincidence that Imane Khelif easily won the women's gold in boxing

And, it's not a coincidence that society is in nearly complete agreement that we NEED to have female sports (Title IX) and not co-ed as the best way to get females involved in sports.

Again, this isn't me pulling shit out of my ass. This is a known biological reality. Males have 40-60% more muscle mass and it gives them a clear advantage, which is why there isn't a single complaint or concern about trans MEN competing in male sports.

The only legit argument is "Well, there are so few trans women...who cares? You're making a big deal out of nothing!" My response is "It's nothing to you because you aren't the female losing your spot in the starting lineup. You aren't the female not making the team. You aren't the female missing out on the post season or coming in second when you should have won, or third when you would have come in 2nd. You aren't the female having your school records broken by a male."

Why are we prioritizing the feelings/experience of one over the feelings/experience of the many who are negatively impacted?

We are not, you don't seem to understand that the many you are referring to are mostly maga cult members and not the athletes.

Go read about some of the sports teams that are openly embracing their trans teammates.

Then look at who's actually driving the complaints. It's the bigoted cult members.

 

[McAdooSmackinYou]

A nonbinary person won a Tony for Best Male Actor the other night and my world is rocked.