GOP & Policies toward/treatment of Transgender & other LGBTQ Americans

[UNCatTech]

There are two sides to the trans/bathroom/locker room /shower issue. The only concern I see expressed is concern for the side of the incredibly small minority (trans). How it makes them feel. How they want to feel comfortable.

There is no concern for the other side, which is all of the biological women who aren't comfortable having biological males in their restroom/locker room/ shower.

This is an example of a Democratic blind spot that I believe has people voting for Trump.

So, how often do you or anyone you know go into a public restroom and verify the biology of each person in the restroom?

You don't, none of us do. The fuss is made up.

If women are that worried about trans women, why wouldn't they be worried about straight men that might actually be attracted to women and be preditors?

I mean you do realize that the majority of trans women are not interested in women, don't you?

 

[finesse]

I mean you do realize that the majority of trans women are not interested in women, don't you?

That doesn't matter for the purposes of this maskirovka.

 

[UNCatTech]

There are two sides to the trans/bathroom/locker room /shower issue. The only concern I see expressed is concern for the side of the incredibly small minority (trans). How it makes them feel. How they want to feel comfortable.

There is no concern for the other side, which is all of the biological women who aren't comfortable having biological males in their restroom/locker room/ shower.

This is an example of a Democratic blind spot that I believe has people voting for Trump.

This is the normal methodology of the right take to the focus away from the actual issue and focus on the fear that gets them the votes they want.

This is a great example. The right keeps talking about trans women in sports and trans women in bathrooms, all the while red states are proposing laws to control LBGTQ medical rights.

 

[ZenMode]

So, how often do you or anyone you know go into a public restroom and verify the biology of each person in the restroom?

You don't, none of us do. The fuss is made up.

If women are that worried about trans women, why wouldn't they be worried about straight men that might actually be attracted to women and be preditors?

I mean you do realize that the majority of trans women are not interested in women, don't you?

"The fuss is made up."

According to who?

While restrooms are probably the least concerning, you aren't in a position to speak for probably more than a couple of women, much less all women.

As I said originally, and as you reinforced with your "fuss" comment, there seems to be concern for the feelings and comfort of only one side of the issue on the Democratic side. I'm sure there are more Seth Moulton's that see the other side, but it seems to be rarely expressed in public or on TV/social media/chat forums, etc.

Yes, politics drives people to exaggerate and grandstand .

 

[finesse]

Yes, politics drives people to exaggerate and grandstand .

Since that is mostly the Republican side, lie seems more appropriate. I know all politicians do it but one party has made it their go to move.

 

[StrangePackage]

What is bad? In this thread, I've seen posters imply that women who don't want men in their restroom are prudes or are lying. I've seen posters expressing obvious contempt for females who don't want to compete against men in sports. I've seen the idea of using the restroom that aligns with your biological gender as obsessing over genitals or is the result of transphobia.

Maybe I missed it, not only here but in the liberal media in general, but I see virtually no concern for the side of biological females.

I can't tell if you're using inaccurate and inconsistent language intentionally.

No one wants men in the women's room. Trans women are women. Trans men are men.

Women in the women's room, men in the men's room.

 

[ZenMode]

Yes, politics drives people to exaggerate and grandstand .

Since that is mostly the Republican side, lie seems more appropriate. I know all politicians do it but one party has made it their go to move.

Yes, Republican politicians are maximizing the rage for political benefit. That can be true and it can also be true that there is legitimate concern among voters on the right, center and left regarding biological men in women's areas. A lack of acknowledgement for that legitimate concern is an issue, IMO.

 

[finesse]

A legitimate concern? Maybe. However, if this ever negatively affects .5% of people in the US directly and not because of feigned political outrage, I'd be surprised. I could start on the other million or so things that affect more people more directly but everybody can see it and you won't admit it. I don't expect good faith arguments from you so I seldom take you seriously. It's not like you offer much in the way of support of your positions other than anecdotes and a few heavily sanitized or out of context statistics.

However, you do amuse me so carry on.

 

[StrangePackage]

Yes, Republican politicians are maximizing the rage for political benefit. That can be true and it can also be true that there is legitimate concern among voters on the right, center and left regarding biological men in women's areas. A lack of acknowledgement for that legitimate concern is an issue, IMO.

Again you are using inconsistent and inaccurate language.

Male and female are biological terms. Man and woman are gendered terms. There's no such thing a a "biological man."

Is this conflation intentional?

 

[ZenMode]

Again you are using inconsistent and inaccurate language.

Male and female are biological terms. Man and woman are gendered terms. There's no such thing a a "biological man."

Is this conflation intentional?

When I use biological male or biological man, it's a reference to the same thing. I generally use the term biological male. You are welcome to use specific language and terms however you'd like.

 

[StrangePackage]

When I use biological male or biological man, it's a reference to the same thing. I generally use the term biological male. You are welcome to use specific language and terms however you'd like.

That's a non answer, and a particularly stupid one at that.

The term biological male is scientifically and linguistically accurate. The term biological man is neither, and in the context of this issue begs the question of whether or not trans people are valid.

Would you agree that trans men are men?

 

[finesse]

When I use biological male or biological man, it's a reference to the same thing. I generally use the term biological male. You are welcome to use specific language and terms however you'd like.

What if they have two separate DNAs in one body of different sexes but have fathered a child?

 

[ZenMode]

What if they have two separate DNAs in one body of different sexes but have fathered a child?

I don't know. I would probably call that a biological irregularity or abnormality. The fact that you are able to describe an irregularity based on two established norms, and I'm able to understand what you are getting at, only reinforces that we both understand that there are two established biological norms.

The people who are concerned about biological males in women's areas surely also understand the two established biological norms.

 

[finesse]

I don't know. I would probably call that a biological irregularity or abnormality. The fact that you are able to describe an irregularity based on two established norms, and I'm able to understand what you are getting at, only reinforces that we both understand that there are two established biological norms.

The fact that I point out those two biological norms can blend proves beyond doubt that your binary approach is a total fallacy.

I don't know how much you understand. I have a good idea about what you're willing to admit. I assume the former is greater than the latter. I like playing word games and the like and I can be disingenuous as well but I don't get the point in the overt dishonesty in your approach.

 

[StrangePackage]

I don't get the point in the overt dishonesty in your approach.

Don't you?

 

[farce©]

What is bad? In this thread, I've seen posters imply that women who don't want men in their restroom are prudes or are lying. I've seen posters expressing obvious contempt for females who don't want to compete against men in sports. I've seen the idea of using the restroom that aligns with your biological gender as obsessing over genitals or is the result of transphobia.

Maybe I missed it, not only here but in the liberal media in general, but I see virtually no concern for the side of biological females.

Your continued insistence on referring to trans women as "men" is your blind spot and devalues your opinion on the matter significantly.

 

[finesse]

Not really. You can engage in mockery much more believably with only a modicum of intellectual effort. I guess I've always hated sloppy craftmanship.

 

[ZenMode]

The fact that I point out those two biological norms can blend proves beyond doubt that your binary approach is a total fallacy.

I don't know how much you understand. I have a good idea about what you're willing to admit. I assume the former is greater than the latter. I like playing word games and the like and I can be disingenuous as well but I don't get the point in the overt dishonesty in your approach.

I agree they can blend. What we are talking about, as it relates to gender dysphoria, is different. We are talking about people who are biologically male or biologically female who believe that they are essentially in the wrong body.

The point of bringing this up wasn't necessarily to have a decisive conversation about athletics, restroom usage, locker room usage, shower usage etc. The topic is that there is a legitimate concern among voters of both parties and the feelings of those concerned voters are treated much differently than the feelings of the other side of the equation.

 

[superrific]

We are talking about people who are biologically male or biologically female who believe that they are essentially in the wrong body.

1. That is not actually a description of gender dysphoria. But what do I know? My wife only has about 30 kids in her practice with that condition.

2. There's one easy way to know the bathroom panic is bullshit: it came out of nowhere. Trans people have been around forever. Heck, there were multiple hit rock songs about them. Nobody in the 1970s worried about trans people in bathrooms. Not in the 1980s either. Or the 90s. The first time I ever heard about the bathroom issue was HB1. Hmm.

3. I'm old enough to remember when opposition to gay marriage was always framed as "protecting straight marriage." Do you remember all that bullshit? People saying that if gay people were to marry, it would somehow harm their own marriages.

Do you see the connection? The religious warriors understand that people don't like their real motivations -- i.e. controlling other peoples' private lives -- so they make up bullshit excuses to pretend as if they are merely defending themselves. Gay people can't be in schools because they will hurt our kids (that one has been recently revived after laying dormant for decades)! Trans people will be predators in bathrooms and on sports fields, even though this has never happened before despite the long history of transgenderism and transsexualism. Gay marriages will harm our marriages! Really, we're not trying to control people, we're just protecting ourselves from the other people who want to harm us!

It. Is. All. Bullshit.

The thing about trans in women's sports is simultaneously bullshit and also something that affects so few people that I'd be willing to give it up if it would pacify the culture warriors. But it won't, because that isn't actually what they are concerned about. It's just an excuse.

 

[farce©]

The thing about trans in women's sports is simultaneously bullshit and also something that affects so few people that I'd be willing to give it up if it would pacify the culture warriors. But it won't, because that isn't actually what they are concerned about. It's just an excuse.

This is the truth.