Harris/Walz Catch-All | Kamala blitz in closing stretch

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These clowns with their endless conspiracy theories are so exhausting. While one like this is being corrected (the correction itself will only convince many MAGA that the conspiracy is true and even more wide ranging than anyone knew, of course), eight other conspiracies sprout like poison mushrooms.



 
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ZenMode said:
There are some Democratic positions/policies that, I believe, drive people to Trump.
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There are no Democratic positions/policies that drive people to Trump.

You may be - and are likely - able to make a list of Democratic positions/policies that would push folks to the Republican Party as the alternative to the Democratic Party. But nothing the Democrats did made Republican voters choose Trump via the primary process twice over other reasonably (and often better) qualified Republican candidates.

The choice to leave the relatively moderate conservatism of the past Republican Party and turn to fascist authoritarianism under Trump was a choice made entirely by the Republican Party.

To be sure, they did so, in part, in reaction to the modern Democratic Party, but it was wholly a choice the voters of the Republican Party made and was in no way, shape, or form forced upon them by anything Democrats did.
 
SnoopRob said:
There are no Democratic positions/policies that drive people to Trump.

You may be - and are likely - able to make a list of Democratic positions/policies that would push folks to the Republican Party as the alternative to the Democratic Party. But nothing the Democrats did made Republican voters choose Trump via the primary process twice over other reasonably (and often better) qualified Republican candidates.

The choice to leave the relatively moderate conservatism of the past Republican Party and turn to fascist authoritarianism under Trump was a choice made entirely by the Republican Party.

To be sure, they did so, in part, in reaction to the modern Democratic Party, but it was wholly a choice the voters of the Republican Party made and was in no way, shape, or form forced upon them by anything Democrats did.
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What do you mean by "modern" Democratic Party that is different from the prior Democratic Party?
 
ZenMode said:
What do you mean by "modern" Democratic Party that is different from the prior Democratic Party?
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Nothing specific, except that we know parties change in both big and small ways over time.

Simply think "the Democratic party since 2008".
 
SnoopRob said:
There are no Democratic positions/policies that drive people to Trump.

To be sure, they did so, in part, in reaction to the modern Democratic Party, but it was wholly a choice the voters of the Republican Party made and was in no way, shape, or form forced upon them by anything Democrats did.
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Let me add to this point. The reason for Trump's emergence was the collapse of the traditional GOP bullshit. Liberals always knew that the old GOP mantras about trickle down and pugilist foreign policy and deregulation were failed ideas and would lead to disaster eventually. And the disaster happened in 2008. And then the racists and the like realized that the traditional GOP folks actually didn't have their best interests in mind. But instead of joining with Dems, they went all-fucking-in with Trump.

Now they can't admit that they fucked up, because it was the ultimate stupidity. Sure George W Bush didn't actually give a shit about the soldiers he sent to die in Iraq, but he at least pretended. Somehow these morons thought Donald Trump cared about them. When it was clear that he didn't, they couldn't bring themselves to admit that the liberals were right. They couldn't bring themselves to admit that they were the stupidest gaggle of voters in the entire history of the United States. So now they draw superhero memes and pretend that God sent Trump for mysterious reasons, because they can't defend the actual man.
 
nycfan said:


When indeed?
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I've never seen Obama get that emotional, except for that funeral in South Carolina.

You can tell how deeply it hurts him to find himself saying on a public stage that it's not OK to call human beings -- let alone fellow citizens -- vermin. One would think that would not be necessary, and yet.

And Obama knows that Trump was a backlash to him. Not because of anything Obama did, but because of who he is. And that's got to piss Barack off as well. It pisses me off to an extraordinary degree, and I'm sure it's far more hurtful to him personally.

One could argue that the country would be better off had HRC won the primary in 08. She would have been elected because McCain was never going to survive the market crash. And maybe we'd get some of the same reaction from having a female president, but I doubt it. It was the black person who set the crazies on this course. Of course, this is a lamentation, not a regret. We did the right thing in 08. America did the right thing. And now America is suffering from a plague of ignorance and hate because of it.
 
SnoopRob said:
Nothing specific, except that we know parties change in both big and small ways over time.

Simply think "the Democratic party since 2008".
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Right. In my mind, somewhere between 2008 and the end of Obama's second term, the Democratic Party, whether the label is fair or not, became associated with many "new" things that they probably hadn't been associated with previously: wokeness, cancel culture, drag queen story hour, men in women's bathrooms, etc. And you had some old things that become more visible: softness on crime and the border. I say "whether the label is fair or not" because social media has created an environment where broad-brush generalizations are the norm. If one politician in Minnesota openly advocates for completely getting rid of police, then "Democrats" in general want to get rid of police.

Do you believe that those things have anything to do with the rise of Trump?
 
ZenMode said:
Right. In my mind, somewhere between 2008 and the end of Obama's second term, the Democratic Party, whether the label is fair or not, became associated with many "new" things that they probably hadn't been associated with previously: wokeness, cancel culture, drag queen story hour, men in women's bathrooms, etc. And you had some old things that become more visible: softness on crime and the border. I say "whether the label is fair or not" because social media has created an environment where broad-brush generalizations are the norm. If one politician in Minnesota openly advocates for completely getting rid of police, then "Democrats" in general want to get rid of police.

Do you believe that those things have anything to do with the rise of Trump?
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One thing that happened in that time period certainly did.

Come On What GIF by MOODMAN
 
superrific said:
Since those things post-dated Trump, I'd say no.
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Trans/Drag queen may have been post 2012, but Wokeness, which was directly associated with, among other things, cancel culture and constant accusations of racism, happened during Obama's second term.
 
ZenMode said:
I agree. The Democratic party also started doling out accusations of racism like it was candy on Halloween.
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So, you agree that the right turned to a revanchist troglodyte like Trump largely because it was so vexed by having a black man in the Oval Office for eight years, but you're also critical of Democrats for calling that racist? Interesting.
 
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