Hot Stove: UNC Basketball

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superrific said:
If EC could shoot, he wouldn't need to be surrounded by the "correct players."

The reason EC can't shoot is that EC apparently has not worked at it enough. Or maybe he lacks shooting talent. Either way, the only person to blame for EC not being a shooter is EC.

If EC thinks it's better to complain about teammates than work on his shot, I wish him well at Ann Arbor.
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If EC could shoot, Bama wouldn't have sagged off him in the Sweet 16 game last year and we'd have gone on to play Clemson in the Elite 8, which I think we clearly would have won.

If EC could shoot, I'd put money on the bet that we'd have been in the final four last year.

He said he worked on it throughout the offseason, but I believe it was George Lynch who noticed that his reps weren't game situation reps. He did improve a little bit percentage wise, though, so I guess that was nice.
 
We can argue about Cadeau all we want, but he's gone. Time to move on. I am more concerned about who they are going to get to replace him that's going to be better, if they are going to get a good big man, if Powell and Jackson are going to stay, and if they are going to get any other transfers that will make a difference next season. So far there's nothing to point to next season being any better.
 
StrangePackage said:
Which of those would you say is more acrimonious? Which would you say is the product of a spoiled individual versus one dealing maturely with a rough situation?
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My distaste for Cadeau grew over the two years wherein the first year, I was giving him the benefit of the doubt with his mini tantrums and lashing out on the court, and trying to agree with others that “he’s just young…” Despite my instincts saying that’s just who he is, and the fact that plenty of players are just as young but far more composed and in control of their emotions on the court.

By the second year, it was clear to me that he wasn’t going to be changing or maturing anytime soon. And I don’t mean his turnovers or basketball IQ. Way too many instances of pushing limits with refs and opposing players — dookie tactics, plain and simple. And if some of you would quickly call a dookie out for those tactics and attitude, but not a Heel, well that’s your problem.

For me, I’m glad he’s gone. It’s clear now that he was taking up more space than he could fill, on the court and in team culture. And his passive aggressive comments only further confirm who he is, and further validate my growing “acrimony.”

Just like Caleb, and even Rashad, I’ll hope for his sake that he matures at some point. Those situations are all very different of course, and of varying degrees… but in every case I’m glad they’re not my problem anymore and I don’t have to root for them.
 
Bigs23 said:
No. Do you know Elliott Cadeau personally?
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No. But I'm not bending over backwards to defend him, either. There are more problems than just one player, and that includes the coaching and the program as whole being able to get players that make a difference.
 
superrific said:
If EC could shoot, he wouldn't need to be surrounded by the "correct players."

The reason EC can't shoot is that EC apparently has not worked at it enough. Or maybe he lacks shooting talent. Either way, the only person to blame for EC not being a shooter is EC.

If EC thinks it's better to complain about teammates than work on his shot, I wish him well at Ann Arbor.
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The big criticism of Ray Felton in his first two seasons was that he couldn’t shoot. In 2004-05 he could SHOOT!

In 2007-08, the criticism of Ty Lawson was he couldn’t shoot. In 2008-09, he was deadly.
 
Zoo_View said:
The big criticism of Ray Felton in his first two seasons was that he couldn’t shoot. In 2004-05 he could SHOOT!

In 2007-08, the criticism of Ty Lawson was he couldn’t shoot. In 2008-09, he was deadly.
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Ty Lawson shot 36, 37 and 47% from 3 during his three seasons at UNC. It's true that he was devastatingly deadly in 08-09, but he was just fine his first two years.

Felton's freshman year, he shot 36% from 3. That slipped to 31% in his second year on lower volume, before his junior season rebound. Still, he averaged about 34% from 3 over his first two years.

In both cases, the players were scorers in high school who had taken and nailed a lot of 3s. There was no reason to think they would be bad.
 
Carolina Fever said:
No. But I'm not bending over backwards to defend him, either. There are more problems than just one player, and that includes the coaching and the program as whole being able to get players that make a difference.
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The main problem was missing on a big last year.

Players that "make a difference" include Jackson, Powell, Caleb Wilson, VAL, Harrison Ingram, Cormac, etc. Players that were very good bets on making a difference included Elliott himself, Cade, and a bunch of others.

Davis has been an excellent recruiter overall, with the exception of finding a serviceable 5 after Bacot left. IMO you can criticize him from a number of angles, but recruiting in general or "finding players who make a difference" isn't really one of them.
 
TarSpiel said:
He said he worked on it throughout the offseason, but I believe it was George Lynch who noticed that his reps weren't game situation reps. He did improve a little bit percentage wise, though, so I guess that was nice.
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Yeah, this is infuriating. When my eldest son was 6, he was an amazing shooter. He could knock down elbow jumpers like they were nothing. This was how we trained:

a. I rebounded, and passed him the ball. He caught it and shot immediately.
b. I would put him on one elbow. Then I would pass the ball to the other elbow. IOW, simulating an off-ball screen to a catch-and-shoot. He would take a slight arc when moving from one elbow to another so he could catch the ball, square up and shoot in basically one fluid motion.

If I could have my 6 year old shooting game situation reps (as much as possible at that age), surely EC could find a way to do that.

My son caught the attention of some coaches, and he caught on with a travel team coached by a former NBA player. I used to joke that I wanted him to be good enough to play at Northwestern. I doubted, from probability and genes, that he would be good enough to play at a good DI school -- which would rule out a lot of quality educational institutions such as Stanford and Berkeley. Ivies don't give athletic scholarships. But Northwestern seemed like a realistic dream. Turned out not to be his dream for reasons, and that was fine. My goal for him at age 6 was to open as many doors for him so he could walk through the one he wanted.

But the point is: practicing game rep shooting literally starts at a very early age. The travel team used to do game rep shooting drills too.
 
the hubert / cadeau wars!

anyways, really hope that we can start locking up some of these portal targets.....veesaar, catchings, powell, boyd all look like good pieces to me.
 
That's not ringing a bell for me...
You’re correct.

He shot better than I remembered.

In 2008-‘09, it became, “You have to stop his “3.”

Which meant you were fucked.
 
TarSpiel said:
The main problem was missing on a big last year.

Players that "make a difference" include Jackson, Powell, Caleb Wilson, VAL, Harrison Ingram, Cormac, etc. Players that were very good bets on making a difference included Elliott himself, Cade, and a bunch of others.

Davis has been an excellent recruiter overall, with the exception of finding a serviceable 5 after Bacot left. IMO you can criticize him from a number of angles, but recruiting in general or "finding players who make a difference" isn't really one of them.
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True, but not landing a big last year was a considerable variable in the outcome of this season.
 
TarSpiel said:
The main problem was missing on a big last year.

Players that "make a difference" include Jackson, Powell, Caleb Wilson, VAL, Harrison Ingram, Cormac, etc. Players that were very good bets on making a difference included Elliott himself, Cade, and a bunch of others.

Davis has been an excellent recruiter overall, with the exception of finding a serviceable 5 after Bacot left. IMO you can criticize him from a number of angles, but recruiting in general or "finding players who make a difference" isn't really one of them.
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There's just been too much inconsistency so far. Every other year has been bad with Hubert. But the program hasn't really been consistent since the 2019-2020 season. Roy's last two years were not good. Hubert's first year was ok, and then they had a great run at the end. But remember, they were an 8 seed in the tournament that year. His second year was bad. Last year was really the only good season overall, but they still were bounced early in the tournament by a lower seed. And this year was bad. I know it's a different era with NIL and the transfer portal being a complete cluster, but it seems other programs have been able to navigate it better. Hopefully, with the GM the Heels will be able to get back to being more consistent and can get some difference makers to come help. I am not a fan of the offense Hubert uses, but maybe with elite talent it won't matter. I'm just not very optimistic right now about next season being better.
 
Zoo_View said:
That's not ringing a bell for me...
You’re correct.

He shot better than I remembered.

In 2008-‘09, it became, “You have to stop his “3.”

Which meant you were fucked.
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I think it's because his shooting in 2009 was so otherworldly. What you remember was "Lawson really improved his shooting for his junior year," which is true. What you forgot was that he improved from 37% to 47%. Normally a guy who jumps 10 points in 3pt % starts from a low baseline. In Ty's case, the jump was to something incredible (and probably a bit of a fluke and not sustainable -- he was probably a 41-42% college 3 shooter, which is excellent).
 
TarSpiel said:
If EC could shoot, Bama wouldn't have sagged off him in the Sweet 16 game last year and we'd have gone on to play Clemson in the Elite 8, which I think we clearly would have won.

If EC could shoot, I'd put money on the bet that we'd have been in the final four last year.

He said he worked on it throughout the offseason, but I believe it was George Lynch who noticed that his reps weren't game situation reps. He did improve a little bit percentage wise, though, so I guess that was nice.
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If he could shoot he would be a rookie in the NBA right now.
 
Carolina Fever said:
There's just been too much inconsistency so far. Every other year has been bad with Hubert. But the program hasn't really been consistent since the 2019-2020 season. Roy's last two years were not good. Hubert's first year was ok, and then they had a great run at the end. But remember, they were an 8 seed in the tournament that year. His second year was bad. Last year was really the only good season overall, but they still were bounced early in the tournament by a lower seed. And this year was bad. I know it's a different era with NIL and the transfer portal being a complete cluster, but it seems other programs have been able to navigate it better. Hopefully, with the GM the Heels will be able to get back to being more consistent and can get some difference makers to come help. I am not a fan of the offense Hubert uses, but maybe with elite talent it won't matter. I'm just not very optimistic right now about next season being better.
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you mean 18-19. team earned a #1 seed with coby white, luke maye, cam johnson leading the way.

19-20 was a dumpster fire.
 
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