How will a Trump presidency affect you?

[CFordUNC]

Pretty succinct. I'm more convinced every day that libs have a comprehension problem. They completely act as if there wasn't a clause in it that allowed a million illegals in BEFORE closing the border. Why is it necessary to let anyone in illegally before securing the border? Only libs can answer that because anyone with common sense would say close the border and then let in what needs to be let in without having to deal with a million illegals. They are to dim to see that is a big part of why they LOST. Again LOST the election. Wasn't to hard for trump to secure the border. Hire the right person and say secure the border. So, as Ram said, killing the bill was the right thing to do and the country is better for it.

For argument sake, let’s say you are right about the bill. My question is, and I am asking in all sincerity, if this bill was so bad, why was it created by one of the most conservative United States senators from one of the most conservative states in the union that has one of the most significant populations of undocumented immigrants? I genuinely don’t understand why Republicans are now acting like it was some horrific bill when one of their own drafted it and it was bound for passage with some of the strictest anti-illegal immigration stipulations ever proposed in Congress, until it was scuttled at the last minute at Trump‘s request. I guess that’s what I don’t understand, why you guys are acting like it was some awful bill when it was created by one of your own, and one of your most conservative senators at that. Forgive my confusion.

 

[wmheel1287]

I don’t view anyone on this board as the enemy.

I’m genuinely sorry that Trump, and his growing list of successes, are causing Dems to suffer a collective mental nervous breakdown.

If Trump cured cancer, Dems would complain bitterly that he was putting oncologists out of business.

Oh you absolutely do view us as the enemy. You might tell yourself that you do not but you ooze it with the grandstanding posts.

Donald Trump is a ABSOLUTELY HORRIBLE human. Nobody should celebrate anything about the man. Ever. He has zero care for anyone other than himself. He doesn't even give two shits about his own family. The dude hates dogs for Christ's sake.

Why you would laud that awful morherfucker so joyously is beyond me but it betrays your deeply held animosity for those of us who are horrified by the man.

And I dont care about his politics.

If he cured cancer, he would auction the cure off to the highest bidder and create a system to intentionally withhold it from folks he didn't like. That's closer to the truth about the man and you damned well know it.

 

[CFordUNC]

Ever heard of fake drivers licenses and social security cards? California is going broke supplying illegals with Medicaid (free) and social services all to retain a few

California is going broke, huh? Have you let them know?

 

[CFordUNC]

To me this is as simple of an issue as we face. Let's assume we do have a labor shortage for the sake of conversation.

Nobody can come in illegally
Everyone must register with ICE to be vetted to keep the bad ones out
There is no amnesty or cutting the line in place of those who have been doing things legally
We identify the needs
We grant work visas that provide the right to work for a given period of time with no benefits of citizenship and taxes must be paid
We can extend the work visas as needed
They check in with ICE periodically. Failure to do so will lead to deportation.

I am very much in favor of legal immigration and we do need these people. Im very much in favor of reworking the immigration laws to make it faster to become a citizen with harsh penalties for trying to illegally circumvent the process.

Appreciate your response and thoughtfulness. At least that is a coherent proposal in good faith and at least attempts to address the labor shortages I mentioned.

 

[superrific]

Trump had the border relatively under control during 1.0. Do you and others here have a mental block for not being to acknowledge that the border issue literally exploded under Biden and was not merely a “Fox News conspiracy?” Dems will get back into office eventually so they better learn from Biden’s border disaster or they’ll be thrown out of office again

No Open Borders ever again!

What part of "they changed the definition of encounter" do you not understand? You might note from the chart in this link that encounters spiked up in 2019. They dropped in 2020 because of the pandemic. They increased in 2021 without a change in policy. Can you figure out why? Any thoughts?

The reason for the increase in crossings in 2019 wasn't Trump's policies, nor were the increases in 2021 due to any different policies (as there were none). The level of migration is supply determined. Do you know what happened in 2019? Bukele took over in El Salvador. He disappears people, especially his enemies. So thousands upon thousands of Salvadorians fled. Get it?

There was a drought in Guatemala in the late 2010s that wiped out the ability of millions of Guatemalans to continue to subsistence farm. They had to leave. Not because of Trump or because of Biden. Because they were starving, literally.

 

[Callatoroy]

Lolololololol ain’t no damn way you believe any of that bullshit Mercer and if you do Mercer should be stripped of its accreditation and burnt to the ground William Tecumseh Sherman style, and honestly maybe even Carolina too for that matter.

Overcrowded schools are a result of inadequate funding, zoning problems, teacher shortages, poor infrastructural planning, etc. - not immigrants.

I won’t touch the housing one because it’s so absurd as to be farcical, and also superiffic already addressed it.

Crimes and gangs? Uh, I don’t want to alarm you or anything but not every person with brown skin is a criminal gangbanger! In fact, very few of them are! In fact, undocumented immigrants commit crime at rates far lower than American citizens.

And maybe they did not teach you this at UNC or Mercer, but undocumented immigrants are not eligible for the vast majority of public welfare benefits funded by the federal government. They may be eligible for certain emergency or limited services, and some state and local programs may offer assistance. But you knew that, I’m sure of it.

This is incorrect. https://www.reuters.com/investigati...hool-age migrant children have,arrivals acros

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www.tandfonline.com

With respect to housing: https://oversight.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/Camarota-Testimony.pdf

 

[superrific]

I don’t view anyone on this board as the enemy.

You reserve that for democracy. If I worked for an insurrectionist, I would quit immediately.

 

[HandsonFire]

I don't know about construction but I very much doubt there are many Americans who want to be roofers.

For the most part, migrants don't much affect wages but construction might be an exception.

Roofing is a narrow scope. Plumbing electrical HVAC/ Mechanical, pipefitters, carpenters, boilermakers, workers in the oil and gas industry and more I can’t think of off the top of my head, all work performed by legals and when illegal labor is used it suppresses wages across the board. And this practice is especially bad in the south. I’d say over the years folks in your position (college educated, insulated from blue collar) are blind to what it’s like in real life working at this for years.

But like I said all the big shops that aren’t unions Republicans through and through. The illegals are coming here because someone wants to give them a job. If there is a problem it is the employer not the employee.

 

[wmheel1287]

Appreciate your response and thoughtfulness. At least that is a coherent proposal in good faith and at least attempts to address the labor shortages I mentioned.

Its not in good faith

 

[4thgenheel]

And the majority aren't. They are coming for improved economic reasons. And while that is understandable, we can't absorb anyone who wants to come nor should we.

Get some of this dook boy.

jfc, are you 9 years old?

the two men responsible for leading our glorious basketball program to such great heights would be disgusted by your deplorable ass, full stop. take a lap.

 

[CFordUNC]

This is incorrect. https://www.reuters.com/investigations/an-american-education-classrooms-reshaped-by-record-migrant-arrivals-2024-10-05/#:~:text=More than half a million school-age migrant children have,arrivals acros

Loading…

www.tandfonline.com

With respect to housing: https://oversight.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/Camarota-Testimony.pdf

Oh dang. Interesting. Looks like I have to stand at least somewhat or mostly corrected on those points. Thanks for sharing those links. I read em and learned from em

 

[4thgenheel]

Oh dang. Interesting. Looks like I have to stand at least somewhat or mostly corrected on those points. Thanks for sharing those links. I read em and learned from em

FYI, on camarota:

Center for Immigration Studies debunked

Since 1985, the Center for Immigration Studies (CIS) has served as the anti-immigrant movement’s go-to think tank. The organizaton publishes dozens of reports and hundreds of blog pieces each year that are cited by elected officials and the media. But its reports have been widely criticized and...

www.splcenter.org

 

[superrific]

Roofing is a narrow scope. Plumbing electrical HVAC/ Mechanical, pipefitters, carpenters, boilermakers, workers in the oil and gas industry and more I can’t think of off the top of my head, all work performed by legals and when illegal labor is used it suppresses wages across the board. And this practice is especially bad in the south. I’d say over the years folks in your position (college educated, insulated from blue collar) are blind to what it’s like in real life working at this for years.

1. I don't hang out with plumbers or electricians, I agree. That doesn't mean I know nothing. There is a substantial literature on this. Now, I would probably know more with data AND personal experience, and I don't have the latter for the most part (though my son-in-law is a budding auto mechanic). I contest the "blind" allegation, which I think is an unfair overstatement.

2. Google confirms my intuition that there are few illegal workers in skilled trades like electrical/HVAC, etc. In these fields, there are way more shortages/openings than illegal workers. Wages are set at the margin, so if the # of openings vastly exceeds the undocumented labor force, then the undocumented workers are doing nothing to suppress wages.

States and Construction Trades Most Reliant on Immigrant Workers, 2022

As we reported earlier, immigrants make one in four construction workers. The share is significantly higher (31%) among construction tradesmen. In some states, reliance on foreign-born labor is particularly evident, with immigrants comprising 40% of the construction workforce in California and...

eyeonhousing.org

3. I can't speak to boilermakers or pipefitters. As I said before, construction is one area where undocumented workers are in competition with natives. That does not necessarily mean that wages are being lowered. Remember: undocumented workers consume even as they produce. There are studies suggesting that undocumented workers increase wages because of the increased demand. I haven't evaluated those studies and I find them implausible at first glance, but they were written by serious people. In any event, I'm not aware of any actual evidence that illegal immigration has a meaningful effect on wages. except perhaps in the lowest skill work in construction.

 

[CFordUNC]

FYI, on camarota:

Center for Immigration Studies debunked

Since 1985, the Center for Immigration Studies (CIS) has served as the anti-immigrant movement’s go-to think tank. The organizaton publishes dozens of reports and hundreds of blog pieces each year that are cited by elected officials and the media. But its reports have been widely criticized and...

www.splcenter.org

Now my head is spinning! Thanks for sharing that, too. I'm just trying to learn and become less ignorant on this topic!

 

[4thgenheel]

Now my head is spinning! Thanks for sharing that, too. I'm just trying to learn and become less ignorant on this topic!

there's definitely a lot of nuance around many of these immigration issues but camarota is a major anti-immigration shill whose credibility is definitely in question. many of CIS' studies have been thoroughly debunked. of course calla would cite them.

 

[superrific]

Oh dang. Interesting. Looks like I have to stand at least somewhat or mostly corrected on those points. Thanks for sharing those links. I read em and learned from em

They are mostly bullshit. The problems with the notorious white propagandists at CIS have already been mentioned. FWIW I did work for CIS when I worked at Jones Day. Everyone I dealt with was horrible.

The study by researchers at "Georgia College" in Milledgeville Georgia is pure anecdote and also limited to HPE. The problems with HPE aren't immigrants; they are conscious choices by school districts.

Try this article that attempts to address facts:

A More Complete Picture of Immigration's Impact on U.S. Public Schools

House Republicans say a migrant influx has caused "chaos" in K-12 schools. The reality is more complicated.

www.edweek.org

That article notes that some districts struggle to accommodate the migrants but also notes the impact is generally overstated because of dishonest statistics. They assign sunk costs to new migrants, which as you surely know is bullshit methodology.

For the most part, the impact is muted and barely noticeable. In South Texas that might not be true, and perhaps in parts of SoCal. Overall, it just isn't a problem. Over the long term, of course, these kids will become productive citizens if given the chance.

 

[Zoo_View]

Oh dang. Interesting. Looks like I have to stand at least somewhat or mostly corrected on those points. Thanks for sharing those links. I read em and learned from em

Key set of phrases in the 4th paragraph of the Reuters link:

“…….exacerbating overcrowding in some classrooms; compounding teacher and budget shortfalls;……”

We (America) have been underfunding schools for decades. The influx of immigrant children is a stress on some schools…..especially underfunded and understaffed and overcrowded schools.

 

[HandsonFire]

1. I don't hang out with plumbers or electricians, I agree. That doesn't mean I know nothing. There is a substantial literature on this. Now, I would probably know more with data AND personal experience, and I don't have the latter for the most part (though my son-in-law is a budding auto mechanic). I contest the "blind" allegation, which I think is an unfair overstatement.

2. Google confirms my intuition that there are few illegal workers in skilled trades like electrical/HVAC, etc. In these fields, there are way more shortages/openings than illegal workers. Wages are set at the margin, so if the # of openings vastly exceeds the undocumented labor force, then the undocumented workers are doing nothing to suppress wages.

States and Construction Trades Most Reliant on Immigrant Workers, 2022

As we reported earlier, immigrants make one in four construction workers. The share is significantly higher (31%) among construction tradesmen. In some states, reliance on foreign-born labor is particularly evident, with immigrants comprising 40% of the construction workforce in California and...

eyeonhousing.org

3. I can't speak to boilermakers or pipefitters. As I said before, construction is one area where undocumented workers are in competition with natives. That does not necessarily mean that wages are being lowered. Remember: undocumented workers consume even as they produce. There are studies suggesting that undocumented workers increase wages because of the increased demand. I haven't evaluated those studies and I find them implausible at first glance, but they were written by serious people. In any event, I'm not aware of any actual evidence that illegal immigration has a meaningful effect on wages. except perhaps in the lowest skill work in construction.

All very good points. And honestly I don’t disagree with you. But I think I’m pointing where there is a disconnect with blue collar workers and democrats. Regardless if illegals take blue collar jobs or suppress wages, the belief that they do is rampant in blue collar work. And these people influence their families with these beliefs. And you are left with a part of the population in the south that believes illegals are actively contributing to the hardships in their life and Democrats make it worse with open border policies. Once again it doesn’t matter the perception of the border crisis is mostly bullshit perception is reality for these people. They also hate unions because pubs told them too. Democrats are losing the battle of messaging . But I guess we know that because the shrimp dick orange Cheetoh is our president. Sorry if I’m rambling.

 

[UNCatTech]

Trump had the border relatively under control during 1.0. Do you and others here have a mental block for not being to acknowledge that the border issue literally exploded under Biden and was not merely a “Fox News conspiracy?” Dems will get back into office eventually so they better learn from Biden’s border disaster or they’ll be thrown out of office again

No Open Borders ever again!

No, COVID closed the borders. It happened around the world, but you keep pretending trump did something. Which policy did he pass in his first term they made a difference?

We've acknowledged that Biden could have handled the boarder better. Just read the thread, several people have responded. You must have a mental block since you can't see that in the last year under Biden deportations were up, without the inhumane bullshit that trump is doing. There's a right way to do things, trump doesn't understand that as everything he does is either stupid or inhumane. It's his norm.

 

[EyeballKid]

Ever heard of fake drivers licenses and social security cards? California is going broke supplying illegals with Medicaid (free) and social services all to retain a few Congressional seats in the census.

Hey fuckface. You’re my enemy, you dumb heartless asshole.