I do want conservatives on here

farce said:
Snoop also did a very good job of ignoring a concerted effort by a select group of ZZLers (not frequent ZZL-P posters) to ridicule and defame him. They were relentless and tried their best to mock and bully him. Most because he banned them from the ZZL-P, but others who apparently were just their posse.
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Agreed. He's still over there dealing with the ZZL-V crew's incessant whining but has started pushing back a bit now.

Dave Chappelle Snl GIF by Saturday Night Live
 
farce said:
Yes. My bad. It must be someone else. I could have sworn I saw you and CFord post consecutively a few times and I had to do a double take.
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Maybe early on? I only made an avatar a few days ago. I just changed it to my old ZZL avatar. I like it better, anyway.
 
CFordUNC said:
Agree with this. For example, several of the MAGA posters on the other board liked to claim that Democrats want to make it legal to electively abort babies up to the moment of birth. That's an "opinion" that they hold, but not only is it an enormously stupid one, it's very clearly patently false. And it's an opinion that should deservedly be treated with mockery, scorn, and derision.

However, if someone is of the opinion that elective abortions are immoral or unethical, that is an opinion worthy of debate and discussion. It's an opinion with which I'll vehemently agree every time, but it's one that I'm more than happy to debate.
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This is an excellent distinction !
 
Lando said:
A guy who was such a noxious bigot that the Human Rights Campaign called him out by name is whining about conservatives being judged unfairly. It'd be comical if it wasn't so damn sad.
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Yea. Assuming talking about me. Yes. A person was murdered. We got info from cops. Said he was male. Didn't think much of it. He apparently was wearing a bra and had penis. Human right person emailed and asked me to change to a she. Obit had as a he. I contacted his mother and she said call him a he. She was furious and hurt. Meanwhile HR people were threatening to picket and contact CNN. We stayed with he. I guess honoring his mother's wishes instead of a person who had never met him and was exploiting his death makes me a bigot.
 
heel79 said:
Yea. Assuming talking about me. Yes. A person was murdered. We got info from cops. Said he was male. Didn't think much of it. He apparently was wearing a bra and had penis. Human right person emailed and asked me to change to a she. Obit had as a he. I contacted his mother and she said call him a he. She was furious and hurt. Meanwhile HR people were threatening to picket and contact CNN. We stayed with he. I guess honoring his mother's wishes instead of a person who had never met him and was exploiting his death makes me a bigot.
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You compared them to a dog. The Hunan Rights Council contacted you and you denied someone’s humanity as a response. That made you a bigot.
 
Lando said:
You compared them to a dog. The Hunan Rights Council contacted you and you denied someone’s humanity as a response. That made you a bigot.
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That is a lie. HR person continued to email when I refused to change to she. After about four emails my patience was out. Should have ignored but did say if a cat says it's a dog it's still a cat. So no. I treated this person's family with respect and humanity and they were thankful. The people trying to exploit his death went away. Every conversation I had with them by phone was with my publisher in the room hearing it. They went away and attacked me.
 
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You told the HRC that being trans was like a cat pretending it was a dog and you don’t see how that is a problem? Ever shoot a message to the NAACP about the curse of Ham?

The fact that you instantly came out of the woodwork despite bleating about ignoring the board and not posting demonstrates one of the problems the ZZLP had with “respecting” conservative views. Some people didn’t want discussion, they wanted validation. So long as the libs didn’t think they were bigoted they must not be. There was the occasional resume of all the times someone wasn’t a bigot so everyone could see they were good and that subsequent opinions couldn’t be abhorrent.

I’m not interested in validation and the need to declare everyone a swell fella despite our differences absolutely stifles conversation.
 
Have you realized why that was wrong? If you were confronting a novel situation and you didn't know what to do, that's fine.

But surely we can all agree that newspaper editors should never be in the business of imposing their own views of gender on the news subjects. There is only one person who gets to determine an adult's gender identity and that is the adult. Not the adult's mom, or sister, or nephew or a newspaper editor
 
Lando said:
You told the HRC that being trans was like a cat pretending it was a dog and you don’t see how that is a problem? Ever shoot a message to the NAACP about the curse of Ham?

The fact that you instantly came out of the woodwork despite bleating about ignoring the board and not posting demonstrates one of the problems the ZZLP had with “respecting” conservative views. Some people didn’t want discussion, they wanted validation. So long as the libs didn’t think they were bigoted they must not be. There was the occasional resume of all the times someone wasn’t a bigot so everyone could see they were good and that subsequent opinions couldn’t be abhorrent.

I’m not interested in validation and the need to declare everyone a swell fella despite our differences absolutely stifles conversation.
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Why would I not bring some truth? Here is a story by another news outlet that dealt with his identity.
wcti12.com

Eastern North Carolina mother speaks out about murder of transgender son

“Okay, Mommy. I love you. ” That was Brenda Scurlock’s last text from her son, Avery, before he was shot eight times, his body abandoned in a field in eastern North Carolina. Scurlock had always worried about Avery’s safety. He was young and black in a society where those qualities could make...
wcti12.com wcti12.com

We decided to honor his grieving mother's request and not to add to her pain. She called her son a gay man. Clearly he led a double life. HRC harassed a grieving woman.
I am comfortable with how we handled. In your world, that makes me transphobic. Funny because I had several conversations just yesterday at the golf course explaining the fact that the olympic boxer was not a man, but was born with female parts. I used this forum for a lot of that information. Going to lose my transphobe card.
 
superrific said:
Have you realized why that was wrong? If you were confronting a novel situation and you didn't know what to do, that's fine.

But surely we can all agree that newspaper editors should never be in the business of imposing their own views of gender on the news subjects. There is only one person who gets to determine an adult's gender identity and that is the adult. Not the adult's mom, or sister, or nephew or a newspaper editor
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Well we would have asked, but that person was dead. BTW, that person had two facebook pages, one in which he identified as a he and one as a she. We became aware of it afterward. Again, there were two stories in the newspaper I believe total. One we called a he from police report. Then when HRC called I called sheriff, who said he was full intact male with a penis. He gave me the mother's name, and I called her, and she was very upset with what was going on, said please us "he." We did, and the obit did as well. No one ever spoke with me who knew this person who said he/she identified as a female. NO ONE. None of the HRC people knew this person.

I did not impose my own view. I had no knowledge of this person and the life led.
 
superrific said:
Have you realized why that was wrong? If you were confronting a novel situation and you didn't know what to do, that's fine.

But surely we can all agree that newspaper editors should never be in the business of imposing their own views of gender on the news subjects. There is only one person who gets to determine an adult's gender identity and that is the adult. Not the adult's mom, or sister, or nephew or a newspaper editor
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Exactly. Much credit has been given to people actually meeting gay folks for views on gay marriage changing. That’s why the erasure of trans people is such a problem. That was actually brought up by the HRC when this went down. So long as trans people can be portrayed as shadowy freaks that exist on the fringes of society bigotry against them will be easy.

The notion that it’s better for them to hide, even in death, is just sad.
 
Lando said:
Exactly. Much credit has been given to people actually meeting gay folks for views on gay marriage changing. That’s why the erasure of trans people is such a problem. That was actually brought up by the HRC when this went down. So long as trans people can be portrayed as shadowy freaks that exist on the fringes of society bigotry against them will be easy.

The notion that it’s better for them to hide, even in death, is just sad.
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AP actually took on the issue (we did not) and also honored mother, using male pronouns. Also in the story above, it said friends said he only identified as female when dressing as a woman, which means sometimes he dressed as a male, and went by he. We ran two stories total. One using he as was provided in police report, and then he again after speaking with his mother. At that time, 2019, I probably thought transgender meant the person had had surgery, and as I said, he had penis. I now know transgender does not mean that. I would have thought of him then as a transvestite.
 
heel79 said:
AP actually took on the issue (we did not) and also honored mother, using male pronouns. Also in the story above, it said friends said he only identified as female when dressing as a woman, which means sometimes he dressed as a male, and went by he. We ran two stories total. One using he as was provided in police report, and then he again after speaking with his mother. At that time, 2019, I probably thought transgender meant the person had had surgery, and as I said, he had penis. I now know transgender does not mean that. I would have thought of him then as a transvestite.
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All of that is fine. Transgender came into the national consciousness super-fast. After slavery, there were black people oppressed under color of law for a century before the country said, "huh, maybe we should wake up and treat them like people." Then, starting primarily in the late 70s, gay people stood up and said, "hey we're here too" but of course we had known about them for a long time. Still, it took two decades for Americans to warm up and start thinking that maybe they didn't understand homosexuality all that well. Trans, by contrast, has been super-marginal until less than a decade ago. It caught a lot of people off guard, including me.

So, in 2019, you didn't understand transgender. I can understand that. It's certainly forgivable. What matters now are whether you (and perhaps the AP) learned.

If your 2024 self could be transported back to 2019, would you have done the same thing you did? If not, then good for you and I don't think this incident should define you. If so, then there is a problem.
 
heel79 said:
Well we would have asked, but that person was dead. BTW, that person had two facebook pages, one in which he identified as a he and one as a she. We became aware of it afterward. Again, there were two stories in the newspaper I believe total. One we called a he from police report. Then when HRC called I called sheriff, who said he was full intact male with a penis. He gave me the mother's name, and I called her, and she was very upset with what was going on, said please us "he." We did, and the obit did as well. No one ever spoke with me who knew this person who said he/she identified as a female. NO ONE. None of the HRC people knew this person.

I did not impose my own view. I had no knowledge of this person and the life led.
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Assuming "the" was a typo for "they," then you now seem to be coming at this in good faith and without hubris. If you didn't know, you didn't know -- I'm assuming you weren't on an investigative beat and probably didn't have anyone on it either. All we can ask is that you do your best in the situation handed to you. If you did that then, and you do that now, and you realize that back then you didn't do it right, then I have no beef about this. If I castigated myself for all the mistakes I made in life -- oh, wait, I do that and I can't help it and that's one of the reasons I'm an emotional mess without my meds. So I recommend not doing that. Learning from the past is good. Beating yourself up about it is rarely productive.
 
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